Kind of impressive that a 3-issue core can get 70% of the way to Broadwell. Broadwell is still experientially better even with half the cores, but of course much higher power. Goldmont seems like a welcome de-crapping of Braswell.
When you say two finger scroll is the opposite way as most laptops, do you mean scrolling down = content goes down, or the "natural" method where content tracks your fingers, push up to get to the bottom of a document?
There is nothing natural about 'natural' scrolling. Only Mac users that have been exposed (forced) to this for a long time think this is normal. Every other human being, including kids and grandparents, by default move down to scroll down.
Windows computers nowadays use "natural" scrolling direction. I think the reasoning is the touchpad is basically "mapped" to the screen. You drag on the touchpad just as you'd drag on a touch screen which many of these laptops have nowadays.
Because "natural scrolling" maps exactly onto how one reads a sheet of paper -- lock your eyes in a specific direction and move the paper upwards through your field of view.
Atom architectures very frequently have problems with standard linux distro's, in that they have crippled EUFI bios's, either 32bit only, or in some other way borked.
Can you install Suse or ubuntu to see if a stanard Grub2 beraing distro release can be installed on this laptop?
I didn't actually install Ubuntu, but booted it from a USB stick. The BIOS has all the required settings to make Linux work in general and Ubuntu 16.04.03 had no issue with any of the hardware parts. I'm very sure it would run without any issues, just as it runs fine on the Braswell and Baytrail Atoms I own.
Didn't try SuSE, CentOS etc. or Remix either.
I returned the notebook before running really extensive tests because * M.2 slot can only hold 4cm units (I only have 8cm ones in the recyling bin) * space bar only worked half the time (thumb keeps hitting metal strip between space bar and touch pad) * touch pad sensitivty is far too high, cannot be truned off or configured: It's a nightmare to type on the thing
I bought it for €400 on Amazon Germany, they raised the price to €500 afterwards--somebody must have had one too many...
It came with version 1511 of Windows 10 which went out of support the day I received it. The upgrade took almost a day but was definitely worth it: It only ever ran the CPUs to full 2.1/2.22 tilt after that and Geekbench scores became quite impressive.
Reading PDFs full screen with two pages side-by-side on that display is what it seems to have been made for: Simply glorious!
A "good-enough" laptop without any moving parts, fan or disk, remains on my wish list. They were close, but fouled up the end-game.
Yep. 3 pounds, 13 in, aluminium. FHD instead of QHD but that's about the best the i5 can drive. There's a 2.5 pounds 12 in version but it's too small for my taste.
Try google A37X ForceRecon 5457. It's a Korean brand. The official price is about 500$, but they give you 15% discount if you buy from certain Korean websites. The favorable exchange rate doesn't hurt either. Amazing deal considering the price of the i5 7200u is 280$ each in batch of 1000.
The only english results seem to be a few comments on review sites, can't find a single full review. seems like an uphill battle to find out more on, unless using poorly google translated pages.
I'm a little confused as to why the 12.3 would score lower in CPU tests than the 14.1 seeing as the 12.3 has an entire aluminum body to dissipate heat. Also can the white point on the display be changed?
This doesn't seem that shocking of a price. For $270 you can get an all aluminum Acer Chromebook 14 with a 1080p IPS display, 4GB RAM and 32GB eMMC. And the acer has been available for several months.
I think it's at least a little surprising. The LapBook 12.3 has 2 more GB of RAM, a slightly better processor, a much higher resolution display, and double the storage for just ~$60 more.
What BIOS version was used for testing? I've seen some people on the Chuwi forums say that the most recent BIOS update significantly raised maximum brightness, seems to be dated 2017/06/12.
I's prefer a Linux disto if looking into an alternative OS. Chromebooks are distressingly limited in capability. The end user is probably better off leaving Windows in place since it can do anything Chrome OS can do and a lot more.
Well as this is essentially a Chromebook re-purposed for Windows I'd say ChromeOS would work better. I use a mix of Windows and ChromeOS machines and it is so nice to use a Machine that doesnt take ages to update and boot etc. ChromeOS just works and for a lot of people that's all they want. If not why did MS bother with the farce that is Windows S?
" it would be best if Power wasn’t so easily pressed by mistake. It’s fairly frustrating to accidentally shut off your computer when you meant to make an edit."
I am endlessly amazed that the designers of "On" and "Off" buttons / keys / software have never heard of time delays, multiple-press sequences, or confirmations. I've got at least two computers where accidentally hitting the power button shuts them down - right now, no questions. Why can't Windows give me an optional confirmation in the power options? Stupid beyond belief IMHO.
"Why can't Windows give me an optional confirmation in the power options?"
It does, in the Power settings in the control panel. It probably took you longer to type out that comment than it would to change the setting to ask for confirmation.
Change the setting of what the power button does in control panel > power options > choose what the power button does. Change it to sleep or something other than shutdown. Problem solved.
I have ASUS UX305, with same power button location. What I did was change setting to 'Turn off the display' & 'Do nothing' when power button is pressed. Problem solved.
I think Chuwi's biggest branding issue is that they name sounds like chewy. That's not something you want if you make electronics. Maybe if you make cookies.
I still have no idea how fast this is in real life. It would be nice to actually know how it will work in real life - how long to open a PDF, run a filter, merge data in Excel or whatever. I could care less what CineBench score it gets we aren't trying to determine IPC or architecture improvements. More real world testing is what review sites need to be doing as part of their testing IMO.
Can it play 1080p HEVC? 4k? How long to load a web site?
I own the Chuwi 14.1 and if the laptop is in a very cool room and the CPU is not overheating, the laptop can play a 10 bit 4k HEVC mkv video. Don't know if the 12.3 has the same overheating issues. There is a mod to add a copper shim to the 14.1 that works very well but I feel the laptop is not worth the effort. https://youtu.be/uhtgUHZYjZ8
What's with the poor battery life? I've got a Teclast tablet with an iPad screen (how do they get these surplus parts?) and it lasts 9-10 hours with web browsing or Excel crunching. It uses a more efficient but slower Z8500 Atom and a smaller yet still hi-DPI screen.
Bought the Chuwi 14.1 Lapbook and the screen is great for the price and I like the look and feel very much. There is one major fault that is causing me to return the Lapbook: Overheating! When cool, in a very cool room, the laptop performs great but even in an air conditioned room at 74 degrees the laptop overheats just trying to play a 10 bit HVEC mkv. There is a mod to add a copper shim but I feel that is too much effort for the price. Of minor annoyance is the trackpad requires a complete reinstall of the Windows OS to function normally as a touchpad. Otherwise the touchpad is only recognized by Windows as a mouse which disallows any sort of modification of the Touchpad like disabling the horrendously dysfunctional Tap to Click function. One minor downside is the internal eMMC is slow but you can install a m.2 SSD to make the Lapbook much faster. In summation, if I have to spend time and money installing a copper shim and m.2 SSD the $270 price I paid seems too much as I can buy a Spin 5 with an i5, 8GB of ram, 256 SSD, and better IPS display for $450 brand new at Walmart. The SSD alone adds $100, then factor in my time and extra cost for the shim and thermal paste and your close to $400 already! For any extra $50 to $70 you can get a much better laptop, albeit not as thin, with a better warranty and english speaking customer service!
I haven't not purchased this laptop, but have had similar experiences with other chinese products. Just too many problems, both software-wise and hardware wise, and usually it's hard to get support. It's just better to just pay a little bit more for a known brand like Acer, etc... Not much more money, but much better quality control and support. For now, I've completely given up on electronic products from lesser known chinese brands.
Just recently I've been looking through convertible atombooks looking for something with Surface display, yet there was nothing. The best thing was Acer Spin 1, but it has it's drawbacks and second generation is slowly coming out. Now there's this, but without touch and on a 12" display, not 13". And Gemini Lake is coming out. Maybe 6 mothns later something really optimal will appear.
A Core M3 or M5 machine would have been a good inclusion in the benchmarking process. Its GPU is significantly better than the first gen Core M.
You can get machines like the Cube i7 book for 350 USD, with a Core M3 (M6Y30), Full HD IPS panel with multi touch support, a 64/128 GB SSD + Full keyboard + trackpad. All the works are there.
Compare that with this. The processor in the Chuwi is at best a tablet processor. Its going to struggle with anything remotely intensive, including basic software like SPSS or Stata.
The Cherry Trail Atom chips are surprisingly powerful. I run Linux server VMs on my tablet, along with Grass/QGIS and image stitching programs. I haven't run SPSS but R works fine, albeit slowly. This thing will never compete against an i7 Surface Pro but at $200, I'm not complaining.
Something amusing not mentioned in this article: The power port uses a 3.5mm barrel plug. It is exactly the diameter of the 3.5mm headphone port, and indeed, the power plug fits nicely into the headphone port :) Unfortunately, it does not charge that way (but it also doesn't light on fire, so that's good).
Brett, can you comment on the functionality of the M.2 slot? With the eMMC being complete garbage (as it always is), what kind of throughput can we expect if we put in a SSD? Is this some gimped solution where it runs at much lower speeds than expected?
Does the microSD run at (at least) USB2.0 speeds? I've got an Asus netbook, the T100, that advertises expanding storage via uSD, but fails to mention it maxes out at 13MB/s continuous read...
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tipoo - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Kind of impressive that a 3-issue core can get 70% of the way to Broadwell. Broadwell is still experientially better even with half the cores, but of course much higher power. Goldmont seems like a welcome de-crapping of Braswell.tipoo - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
When you say two finger scroll is the opposite way as most laptops, do you mean scrolling down = content goes down, or the "natural" method where content tracks your fingers, push up to get to the bottom of a document?
Samus - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Yes, what is sometimes referred to as "natural" scrolling, opposed to "reversed" scrolling. Think of a flight sim where down is up and up is down.Personally, I find natural annoying (the default on Mac's) and always reverse it.
reukiodo - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
There is nothing natural about 'natural' scrolling. Only Mac users that have been exposed (forced) to this for a long time think this is normal. Every other human being, including kids and grandparents, by default move down to scroll down.peterfares - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
Windows computers nowadays use "natural" scrolling direction.I think the reasoning is the touchpad is basically "mapped" to the screen. You drag on the touchpad just as you'd drag on a touch screen which many of these laptops have nowadays.
JoeMonco - Saturday, September 9, 2017 - link
Except when using a tablet or smatphone, right?pjcamp - Tuesday, November 21, 2017 - link
Because "natural scrolling" maps exactly onto how one reads a sheet of paper -- lock your eyes in a specific direction and move the paper upwards through your field of view.Oh wait . . . .
R3MF - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Re: Linux supportAtom architectures very frequently have problems with standard linux distro's, in that they have crippled EUFI bios's, either 32bit only, or in some other way borked.
Can you install Suse or ubuntu to see if a stanard Grub2 beraing distro release can be installed on this laptop?
ThortonBe - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I would be keen to hear the answer to this as well. It seems like a pretty tempting device, but I'd want Linux on it.abufrejoval - Thursday, October 26, 2017 - link
I didn't actually install Ubuntu, but booted it from a USB stick. The BIOS has all the required settings to make Linux work in general and Ubuntu 16.04.03 had no issue with any of the hardware parts. I'm very sure it would run without any issues, just as it runs fine on the Braswell and Baytrail Atoms I own.Didn't try SuSE, CentOS etc. or Remix either.
I returned the notebook before running really extensive tests because
* M.2 slot can only hold 4cm units (I only have 8cm ones in the recyling bin)
* space bar only worked half the time (thumb keeps hitting metal strip between space bar and touch pad)
* touch pad sensitivty is far too high, cannot be truned off or configured: It's a nightmare to type on the thing
I bought it for €400 on Amazon Germany, they raised the price to €500 afterwards--somebody must have had one too many...
It came with version 1511 of Windows 10 which went out of support the day I received it. The upgrade took almost a day but was definitely worth it: It only ever ran the CPUs to full 2.1/2.22 tilt after that and Geekbench scores became quite impressive.
Reading PDFs full screen with two pages side-by-side on that display is what it seems to have been made for: Simply glorious!
A "good-enough" laptop without any moving parts, fan or disk, remains on my wish list. They were close, but fouled up the end-game.
Hereiam2005 - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
My i5 7200 laptop was 400$, delivered.tipoo - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Was it 3 pounds?Hereiam2005 - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Yep. 3 pounds, 13 in, aluminium. FHD instead of QHD but that's about the best the i5 can drive.There's a 2.5 pounds 12 in version but it's too small for my taste.
R3MF - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
any clues as to the make/model?Hereiam2005 - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Try google A37X ForceRecon 5457. It's a Korean brand.The official price is about 500$, but they give you 15% discount if you buy from certain Korean websites.
The favorable exchange rate doesn't hurt either.
Amazing deal considering the price of the i5 7200u is 280$ each in batch of 1000.
tipoo - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
The only english results seem to be a few comments on review sites, can't find a single full review. seems like an uphill battle to find out more on, unless using poorly google translated pages.zodiacfml - Friday, September 8, 2017 - link
More likely it has a TN panel with 1:600 contrast ratio and a resolution of 1366*768Hereiam2005 - Sunday, September 10, 2017 - link
I have my laptop right here and it says 1920:1080 resolution. So guess again.Hereiam2005 - Sunday, September 10, 2017 - link
http://prod.danawa.com/info/?pcode=4855034Use google translate if you don't understand Korean.
superunknown98 - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I'm a little confused as to why the 12.3 would score lower in CPU tests than the 14.1 seeing as the 12.3 has an entire aluminum body to dissipate heat. Also can the white point on the display be changed?ianmills - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
I guess the bigger one has a copper heatsink. Techtablets has a bunch about this. Adding a copper heatsink can improve performance quite a bitvanilla_gorilla - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
This doesn't seem that shocking of a price. For $270 you can get an all aluminum Acer Chromebook 14 with a 1080p IPS display, 4GB RAM and 32GB eMMC. And the acer has been available for several months.tipoo - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I have it. I hope they updated it to Apollo Lake soon, the Braswell CPU is pretty slow.kefkiroth - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I think it's at least a little surprising. The LapBook 12.3 has 2 more GB of RAM, a slightly better processor, a much higher resolution display, and double the storage for just ~$60 more.systemBuilder - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
RAM is $10/GB = $20.Flash is $0.50/GB = $16
Better screen, I guess, is about $18 more, markup is assumed 10%.
tipoo - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I don't think Windows is free in this screen sizenotashill - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
What BIOS version was used for testing? I've seen some people on the Chuwi forums say that the most recent BIOS update significantly raised maximum brightness, seems to be dated 2017/06/12.See: http://forum.chuwi.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&am...
http://forum.chuwi.com/thread-4473-1-1.html
jabber - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
If you can put Neverware on this and you have a great Chromebook!BrokenCrayons - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
I's prefer a Linux disto if looking into an alternative OS. Chromebooks are distressingly limited in capability. The end user is probably better off leaving Windows in place since it can do anything Chrome OS can do and a lot more.jabber - Sunday, September 10, 2017 - link
Well as this is essentially a Chromebook re-purposed for Windows I'd say ChromeOS would work better. I use a mix of Windows and ChromeOS machines and it is so nice to use a Machine that doesnt take ages to update and boot etc. ChromeOS just works and for a lot of people that's all they want. If not why did MS bother with the farce that is Windows S?Arbie - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
" it would be best if Power wasn’t so easily pressed by mistake. It’s fairly frustrating to accidentally shut off your computer when you meant to make an edit."I am endlessly amazed that the designers of "On" and "Off" buttons / keys / software have never heard of time delays, multiple-press sequences, or confirmations. I've got at least two computers where accidentally hitting the power button shuts them down - right now, no questions. Why can't Windows give me an optional confirmation in the power options? Stupid beyond belief IMHO.
systemBuilder - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
They are apparently using a Chromebook keyboard with standard windows keycaps.kaidenshi - Friday, September 8, 2017 - link
"Why can't Windows give me an optional confirmation in the power options?"It does, in the Power settings in the control panel. It probably took you longer to type out that comment than it would to change the setting to ask for confirmation.
Samus - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Still has a power button in a devastating place...who wants a computer that shuts down every time you blindly hit backspace...Ej24 - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
Change the setting of what the power button does in control panel > power options > choose what the power button does. Change it to sleep or something other than shutdown. Problem solved.0iron - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
I have ASUS UX305, with same power button location. What I did was change setting to 'Turn off the display' & 'Do nothing' when power button is pressed. Problem solved.Flunk - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I think Chuwi's biggest branding issue is that they name sounds like chewy. That's not something you want if you make electronics. Maybe if you make cookies.Naris17 - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
Think I've heard them go by the name 'Beetles' in Asia if that's any better to say.Personally I always equate the Chuwi name to Chewbacca, so I think it's awesome.
Icehawk - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I still have no idea how fast this is in real life. It would be nice to actually know how it will work in real life - how long to open a PDF, run a filter, merge data in Excel or whatever. I could care less what CineBench score it gets we aren't trying to determine IPC or architecture improvements. More real world testing is what review sites need to be doing as part of their testing IMO.Can it play 1080p HEVC? 4k? How long to load a web site?
sarscott - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
I own the Chuwi 14.1 and if the laptop is in a very cool room and the CPU is not overheating, the laptop can play a 10 bit 4k HEVC mkv video. Don't know if the 12.3 has the same overheating issues. There is a mod to add a copper shim to the 14.1 that works very well but I feel the laptop is not worth the effort. https://youtu.be/uhtgUHZYjZ8cfenton - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
How are they doing 6GB of RAM in dual-channel? Is it just Flex Mode, or am I wrong that dual-channel only works fully with matching capacities?Ryan Smith - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Apollo Lake supports LPDDR4, which is readily available in 12 and 24 Gbit sizes.cfenton - Saturday, September 9, 2017 - link
I had no idea. Thank you for the answer.serendip - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
What's with the poor battery life? I've got a Teclast tablet with an iPad screen (how do they get these surplus parts?) and it lasts 9-10 hours with web browsing or Excel crunching. It uses a more efficient but slower Z8500 Atom and a smaller yet still hi-DPI screen.sarscott - Wednesday, September 6, 2017 - link
Bought the Chuwi 14.1 Lapbook and the screen is great for the price and I like the look and feel very much. There is one major fault that is causing me to return the Lapbook: Overheating! When cool, in a very cool room, the laptop performs great but even in an air conditioned room at 74 degrees the laptop overheats just trying to play a 10 bit HVEC mkv. There is a mod to add a copper shim but I feel that is too much effort for the price. Of minor annoyance is the trackpad requires a complete reinstall of the Windows OS to function normally as a touchpad. Otherwise the touchpad is only recognized by Windows as a mouse which disallows any sort of modification of the Touchpad like disabling the horrendously dysfunctional Tap to Click function. One minor downside is the internal eMMC is slow but you can install a m.2 SSD to make the Lapbook much faster. In summation, if I have to spend time and money installing a copper shim and m.2 SSD the $270 price I paid seems too much as I can buy a Spin 5 with an i5, 8GB of ram, 256 SSD, and better IPS display for $450 brand new at Walmart. The SSD alone adds $100, then factor in my time and extra cost for the shim and thermal paste and your close to $400 already! For any extra $50 to $70 you can get a much better laptop, albeit not as thin, with a better warranty and english speaking customer service!kmmatney - Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - link
I haven't not purchased this laptop, but have had similar experiences with other chinese products. Just too many problems, both software-wise and hardware wise, and usually it's hard to get support. It's just better to just pay a little bit more for a known brand like Acer, etc... Not much more money, but much better quality control and support. For now, I've completely given up on electronic products from lesser known chinese brands.Nevod - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
Just recently I've been looking through convertible atombooks looking for something with Surface display, yet there was nothing. The best thing was Acer Spin 1, but it has it's drawbacks and second generation is slowly coming out.Now there's this, but without touch and on a 12" display, not 13". And Gemini Lake is coming out.
Maybe 6 mothns later something really optimal will appear.
vortexmak - Thursday, September 7, 2017 - link
Can you please review the Chuwi Surface competitorsLiverpoolFC5903 - Friday, September 8, 2017 - link
A Core M3 or M5 machine would have been a good inclusion in the benchmarking process. Its GPU is significantly better than the first gen Core M.You can get machines like the Cube i7 book for 350 USD, with a Core M3 (M6Y30), Full HD IPS panel with multi touch support, a 64/128 GB SSD + Full keyboard + trackpad. All the works are there.
Compare that with this. The processor in the Chuwi is at best a tablet processor. Its going to struggle with anything remotely intensive, including basic software like SPSS or Stata.
Hurr Durr - Friday, September 8, 2017 - link
>basic software>IBM analytics
Yeah, right. I guess Photoshop is a basic image resizing program as well now.
serendip - Friday, September 8, 2017 - link
The Cherry Trail Atom chips are surprisingly powerful. I run Linux server VMs on my tablet, along with Grass/QGIS and image stitching programs. I haven't run SPSS but R works fine, albeit slowly. This thing will never compete against an i7 Surface Pro but at $200, I'm not complaining.thetuna - Friday, September 8, 2017 - link
Something amusing not mentioned in this article:The power port uses a 3.5mm barrel plug.
It is exactly the diameter of the 3.5mm headphone port, and indeed, the power plug fits nicely into the headphone port :)
Unfortunately, it does not charge that way (but it also doesn't light on fire, so that's good).
max347 - Saturday, September 9, 2017 - link
If only it charged through a usb c port. Now that my phone uses one, the next laptop I buy definitely will have the same port for convenience.Narg - Friday, September 15, 2017 - link
I bought a Chuwi once. Was riddled with viruses from the factory. No thanks.lmcd - Sunday, September 17, 2017 - link
Adorable, you almost started reading the review.hybrid2d4x4 - Friday, September 15, 2017 - link
Brett, can you comment on the functionality of the M.2 slot? With the eMMC being complete garbage (as it always is), what kind of throughput can we expect if we put in a SSD? Is this some gimped solution where it runs at much lower speeds than expected?Does the microSD run at (at least) USB2.0 speeds? I've got an Asus netbook, the T100, that advertises expanding storage via uSD, but fails to mention it maxes out at 13MB/s continuous read...
lmcd - Sunday, September 17, 2017 - link
This. What's it keyed? NVM support or SATA only? Bootable?Brett Howse - Friday, September 22, 2017 - link
It's a SATA 2242 slot. Looks like it can be set as the boot drive as well.lmcd - Sunday, September 17, 2017 - link
If you could fix the movie playback graphs that'd be cool, the "tesseract" makes no sense. 2 min of video playback != over 30% of a viable test movie.chrkv - Thursday, September 19, 2019 - link
Does anyone know the dimensions of power adapter's connector? I've lost mine and looking for a substitute :(