The Apple A12X SoC is also an amazing innovation, having a 10-billion transistor, 8 core CPU, 7 core GPU and 8 core Neural Engine = 18 core chip that is more powerful than 92% of all laptops.
Apple also improved the audio quality available through USB-C since all previous USB-C headphones simply suck compared to Apple Lightning compatible headphones.
Let's not forget that pricing is square in "laptop/ultrabook" territory - it would be interesting to do a modern comparison of what computing power you get for the same price, regardless of form factor.
That's basically the gist of it, you get laptop-type performance at laptop-type prices, just with a different form factor.
With (i)Phones getting larger and larger the need for a small tablet is vanishing away. Yes, you'll definitely find a use case that makes total sense but chances are it's not one that will drive any meaningful sales numbers.
Sure... 299E/$/£. Because the current iPad Mini 4 definitely doesn't already cost you 400 and up. And an iPad Mini can undoubtedly do all the iPhone can do. Right?
So you're saying people looking to buy an iPhone (a phone!) would give it up and go for a tablet instead because it's like a bigger phone so it must be better at... phoning ... Normally I'd be up for a good laugh but I'm pretty sure your explanation is nowhere near funny enough.
Phablets were a weird and relatively short lived trend when normal tablets were too chunky and phones still too small. There's still a chance they launch an iPad Mini 5 but it would still be very much a tablet not a phone or a phone replacement. A large phone is far more versatile than an 8" phablet/tablet can be. And remember that a tablet is at best a second device, *after* you have the phone.
Yes, but basic phone + small tablet is both cheap and practical. If all you want the phone for is calls and texts it doesn't even need to be smart... and it has a separate battery, so you can run the tablet right down without worrying about cutting yourself off.
I have 5 7in or 8in tablets. They are perfect for reading books on, watching movies on the go or let the kids watch cartoons. Large screen phones are in no way a substitute for these. What Apple's strategy with the iPad mini is, nobody knows except them. Apple often seems divorced from reality in decisions they make, stuck in the RDF that means they think they understand what clients want. Yet they are losing huge amounts of Mac clinets through this view.
But they have been confirming over 50% of sales are to new users for over the past year despite total unit sales hardly growing so they are adding new users and losing existing...
Functional? They've added additional output functionalities that needed more IO wires than lighting supported. In this case the plan was probably to trickle the port change down to the phones when the features needing them go down.
Regulatory reasons and time to market? In which case next year's phones will probably do the same.
The EU's apparently not impressed with Apple claiming "we support USB charging via a dongle" as complying with their requirement for the industry to standardize on USB. If Apple became aware of the issue prior to the EU going public in August, it may have been too late to switch this year's phones over without slipping the date while the ipad could still be changed without missing the planned release date.
One is that there are hundreds of products with slots and Lightning plugs. Manufacturers would need some time to become prepared.
But two is that consumers need some time. This is an even bigger change than the removal of the headphone jack. Leading with this gives people the time to adjust to change in iPhones, possibly next year.
It does make sense. Apple's marking campaign for the new iPad Pro is pretty clearly going up against Windows laptop/tablet computers. They had an infographic claiming the iPad as the most popular computer sold (well, sure... at iPad prices), they have normalized the keyboard and improved the pen, etc. Lightning locks you into the Apple ecosystem, but it's old and slow. They do need to replace it.
I think that going to USB Type-C on the iPad is a precursor to going to Type-C on an iPhone in a year or two. It's not just the port, it's figuring out how to make this work smoothly on an iOS device. How to deal with thousands of now-connectable devices that won't have drivers. Better hash this out on 40+ million devices than nearly 200 million.
+1 to this. I realize it would be fruitless to pretend the comparisons are apples (heh) to apples, but worth looking into where we are in the CPU arena and may give some insight into where we are on Apple's long term goal of presumably building their own laptop-class CPUs.
Would have to make sure that the A12X is running a full monolithic OS as that will hinder performance quite a bit compared to iOS. Also has to be something more than Geek Bench which Apple seems to love as the end all be all comparison of their CPU/GPU to everything else.
More comparisons to x86 would be nice though, especially since Andrei had to modify a few of the tests to compile on iOS and because not many other people are still testing SPEC2006.
The A12 has a wider execution engine than even desktop Cores now, and lots of cache and otherwise is a beastly architecture.
Why do people keep pretending it wouldn't perform well under another OS? If the OS was properly tailored to it, the architecture would be beastly wherever it was put.
We honestly just need IOS13 to bring power user and multi-tasking features to make use of the A12. It's woefully underutilized at the moment.
If you think about it, Apple's competing against their own product lineups. Either buy an iPad Pro and its accessories, and it roughly comes out to MBP price levels. Even the storage is roughly comparable.
It's the software ecosystem that's different, and a lack of Xcode on IOS still.
I serious doubt we will ever have reliable results in this area. iOS has no since of desktop apps and Applets are designed differently than desktop applications. Plus with everything on the web now a days - it kind of skews everything.
Hmm. There are just two major lines of CPUs. I wonder which they are. Of course an SoC is much more sophisticated than the much simpler x86 design, considering all the extra functionality in the SoC. Also considering the far lower cost of the SoC, with Apple’s estimated by Microprocessor Reports as costing between $34 to 38, though it could be a bit higher this year. It’s also the highest cost SoC. Still, pretty cheap by intel, and even and standards. Heck, Apple could use two of these, and it would still be a lot cheaper.
Of everything were on the web, why would desktop apps matter? And can you name any significant difference between how "Applets" and desktop applications.are designed? And Photoshop won't be enough of a "desktop app" for you?
Definitely want that too. But ideally, find some way to measure power draw? If nothing else works, you could tear down the tablet and current clamp the battery connector (and display cable to subtract it from the equation)?
The decision to have different aspect ratio on the 2 devices is weird? Also, too expensive! USB C is nice though and the pencil charging method is cool. I want the iPad Mini Pro 8.9” version though ... if the price is right.
Iphone X is overpriced and this is not at the same level of a surface pro. A12X looks like a great SoC and i hope intel responds accordingly but we all know thats not going to happen.
Some of us are willing to pay money for hassle-free devices. If you are not, that is fine. But why should the rest of us suffer because you are a cheapskate?
Buy your own keyboard for a few bucks and use that. Usb c also. The price is fine for the iPad pro, since it is more than 2 years ahead of any Android tablet, it will be fast for years, and feel great with the 120hz also.
I haven’t seen those rumors anywhere. But adobe ran a real-time demo of a huge 3Gig many layered file. It ran just fine on the beta software. It worked just as well when they took that file and turned it into a 3D model and ran over 12 butterflies flying around, again rendered real-time, while walking around it and recording it on the ipad at the same time.
However much memory it has, it’s obviously more than enough.
It's a shame that Apple is still gouging for extra storage. If the base 11" model shipped with 128GB storage and included the Apple Pencil, it would be much more appealing to me.
The small iPad Pro went from $650 to $800, and the larger iPad Pro went from $800 to $1,000.
Pixel 3 starts at $800 (up from $650 for Pixel 2). RTX 2080 FE at $800 (up from $700 for GTX 1080 FE). New iPhone Xs starts at $1,000 and the Xs MAX going all the way up to $1,500 (up from iPhone 8 starting at $800 and the iPhone X going up to $1,150).
Most didn't. For example phones you see more cheaper quality choices: Nokia 7.1 ($350) or upcoming OnePlus 6T ($550). And Galaxy S9 and LG G7 you get nowadays for around $600. Surface 2018 line refresh or latest HP/Dell laptops didn't get more expensive.
Cheaper products are restrained in cost. Consumers won’t pay more. But flagship products can go up in price because consumers are willing to pay more for more.
Consumers with financial irresponsibility are just dumb asses.
I bet you that the new iPhone costs less than $400 to make but sells for $1000. The iPhone 4S costs $196 to make, including manufacturing cost. Feel ripped-off yet?
No because I could not in my entire lifetime make something as nice myself for the price you came up with. You really should take a class in business and just see how much it costs to keep good people employed, along with insurance, keeping the lights on, travel, legal fees, etc. etc. But I realize you can't look past the cost of actual components and don't understand how things are actually engineered, or how the resources are accumulated, or how to set up manufacturing, or set up a store, or set up service and support, or even comprehend supply chain. Oh lets not forget writing an entire operating system and supply free updates for the next 5 years.
The prices are out of control as another commenter said, for the same price you can have a proper laptop with much more power (processing power and in functionality). And the bezels are too thin for a tablet, I still rock a Nexus 10 and its bezels are near perfect to be held easily.
I specced out the second lowest storage tier, keyboard and pencil, and it was 1800 dollars in Canada. That's a line I can't cross for a tablet with iOS's limits, no matter if it's more powerful than most small laptops.
Debatable whether a laptop would have more processing power, unlikely it would have both more processing power and similar battery life. And you've used the new iPads to know how their bezels are inadequate?
"for the same price you can have a proper laptop with much more power" Nope. If this is what you think then you are not understanding where apple's at with the A12X.
These arguments are kind of funny. So, I guess nobody you know uses bluetooth headphones, right? Also, if you're going to be hassled with plugging something in, what's the big deal with using a dongle?
Why a camera bump? I don't even want a camera in my tablets, but it was fine when they just stayed out of the way. Now that they've even got a camera bump making the whole device wobbly (if the XS Max is any indication), they're making the user experience worse for something many people don't care about in a tablet.
@ Andrei: Thanks! Hope for/look forward to a deep dive on the A12x. Should be a beast, at least in the ultra-portable space. Also, I am curious about the SSDs in the 512 Gb and 1 TB models; do they use PCI-e or NVMe, or...?
@ Apple: yeah and Boooh! Yeah, great tech, booh, the prices - ouch! How about a tablet for mere mortals who don't get Silicon Valley-type paychecks? Also, the differentiation between the higher end models of the iPad Pro and the Mac Air is getting complicated. If Apple's claims for the A12x pan out, their tablet is now outgunning most of their own laptops when it comes to compute power. Lastly, I wonder if that claim about the A12x performance takes pricing into account. A $ 1700 laptop can readily include a quite capable four (maybe even six) core i7, and they're not slow.
Yes, capable for media consumption, but notably last-gen tech. Apple has a unique way to make buyers of their cheaper (older) models feel crappy about having to buy cheaper models. Google and Samsung have been fast learners here, too, and are catching up.
Forgot this BOOOH: As Andrei mentioned, the removal of the 3.5 mm headphone connector makes no sense whatsoever. These tablets almost scream for more, not fewer connectors, and, unlike phones, they have the space to accommodate them. For example an iPad Pro with two (!) USB-C connectors PLUS a 3.5 mm would be great; for example, attach external storage and a camera for some on-the-spot photo or video editing, or connect a portable keyboard to make music etc. iPads used to be the choice of creatives, now they're more for consumption than creation.
Third'ed, Photoshop can take a lot of RAM and their massive image demonstration was impressive, would choke 4GB Windows systems. Wonder if it went up to 6-8 this year.
The aspect ratio on the 11" iPad Pro is actually pretty close to √2:1. This is the same aspect ratio as A-series paper sizes (eg A4 paper), and has the property that if you divide the screen in half, each half will also have the aspect ratio √2:1 (which is also true recursively if you keep dividing in half).
A12X is sure to put a wholloping on current U series cores on performance...But ouch, that price, particularly in Canada. A 256GB model with a Pencil and keyboard is 1800 dollars, and I just can't bridge that mental gap for a tablet.
I had the same thought/expectation ever since the A12 (w/o the "x") surfaced; the A12x has twice the number of big (Vortex) cores. The main obstacle is that, to run at speed, it requires the OS and the key software from MS and Adobe to run native on the A12x and its descendants. We'll know that Apple is serious about changing to in-house chips if a. iOS engineers are cross-teamed to the MacOS side and b. once Microsoft and Adobe work actively on porting their key programs to run native on Apple's own chips. The latter (porting of Office, Creative Suite and related offerings to run native on the A12x, A13x...) is the one that would make this a definite. The other indicator to watch is any forward-looking statement by Intel about fewer projected sales of certain chips that are mainly sold to Apple (Iris graphics containing lower power i5 and i7).
Apple's second main architecture switch, from PowerPC to Intel, was made smoother with the Rosetta emulator. PPC Photoshop ran decently on Intel (I remember it well) but it only took a few months for Adobe to come up with an Intel port. After that, PowerPC was as good as dead.
The same thing could happen with Apple's potential switch from Intel to ARM. Get Adobe and Microsoft on board with ARM ports ready on hardware release, on top of Apple's own pro apps and Intel Macbooks will be quickly forgotten by consumers. Ironically, Microsoft's ARM Windows efforts have shown that an x86 translator running on Qualcomm SoCs is viable and usable. Apple can do better based on its iOS-ARM experience and its superior SoCs.
When in a mildly noisy environment - would you prefer to have headphones with active noise cancellation?
If you had the choice of tethered headphones - or the same model in wireless form - which would you prefer?
It seems to me that the best option is to have the signal sent digtially and wirelessly from the iPad to the headphone, where upon the headphone performs digital correction and cancellation it’s the fewest number of ADC DAC steps.
Perhaps the frustration is being felt by the headphone manufacturers who were hoping to avoid the R&D expenses in offering active noise cancelling products.
One of the benefits for teenagers who adopt noise cancellation headphones will be their won’t play their music so loud / and are more likely to keep their hearing intact!
Looks like Apple's trying to catch up to my Samsung S4 Tab here. Ok, I'd like to see Samsung make a 12" or so tablet -- I had a Pro Tab 12. 2 for some years. And yeah, the S4 is only 10.5", but that was last year's upgrade from 9.7", and it's OLED, not LED. Probably the best display in a tablet. Apple, no doubt, has the fastest CPUs and GPUs, because being vertically integrated, they can spend the money and power on higher-spec ARMs. But at least they've followed everyone else in dumping the button and going to a thin bezel. But it's still super risky without a good protective case.
What do you display on that "best display in a tablet" since Android has (for all practical purposes) has no dedicated tablet apps? Blown up phone apps? Web pages? Do you just use it as a dumb monitor to watch movies?
That's some next level denial. You do realize that those two are not the same category of products, right?
The closest comparison to Tab S4 in features and capabilties is the iPad (2018) + pen. Which is in fact cheaper than the S4.
In fact Apart from the screen there is nothing that the S4 does well. Low RAM even for an android phone (prepare for endless reloads), low end SoC (it is like a celeron compared to the "i7" of iPad pro), lower battery despite the more battery hungry components, Samsung literally gives up on her tablets in a year , 2 at most. One tenth of the amount of choice for tablet optimized apps. Where do you want me to stop? Oh , it is also heavier despite the smaller battery and screen than iPad pro 11.
Samsung literally does everything wrong with S4 and has the gall to price $100 less than iPad pro 11 (you can always use an extrnal drive to upgrade the storage now that it is compatible with peripherals).
Love the amoled though, and even considered it for a sec but then iPad pro was released and felt like a fool for even considering a ... bare screen. At $399 it can compete (the S4), at $699 it is DOA
"Here Apple really demands quite the premium at $800 per TB of storage, and similarly I’m disappointed to see 64GB and not 128GB being the base model, even though the new generation is respectively $150 and $200 more expensive at launch" - that was quite a good joke. You act like you don't know how Apple reached over 1 T $ market cap. A good example would be iphone XR which is Galaxy S9 money but gives you a 720P ish screen.
I don't think the Camera are the same as Xs. This iPad Pro Camera only have 5 lens and it is lacking OIS. So in terms of quality we are not sure if it really is better than previous gen.
We saw A11 10nm and A12 7nm with the same basic uArch. Next iPad will likely come with better IPC and GPU. Further leading in performance along with a better 7nm. I am hoping we see 6GB RAM this year instead of having it next year.
The comparisons with laptops are useless, especially considering this cannot do something as basic as mouse connectivity. Good luck working on excel files with large amounts of data on a touch interface.
The capabilities of the SOC cannot be tested properly in a gimped restricted OS like the IOS.
Lets list things you cannot do on an ipad
- connect a mouse - access the file system - connect usb peripherals like gamepads
- copy paste files from/to another device
- Run SPSS or stata for basic analysis - use a non webkit based browser Etc etc.
Used to think Anandrech was more balanced but looks like they have become an apple shill now. All praise for great apple and their great products.
This can never replace a real lsptop. The surface pro will run rings around any gimped ipad.
The iPad Pro is clearly a great device on any level. Whether it's the right device for you is irrelevant. It's rather sad that anytime you say something nice about an Apple product, people like you have to accuse the publication of not being "balanced". Anyone who doesn't share your particular opinion must be wrong then???
There's a Surface for that :) I'm with you, my workflow involves weird Win32 programs and being an ultralight fanatic, I use a cheap Atom Windows tablet as my main computer. I hope to upgrade to a Surface Go soon. A Surface Pro is too big and too expensive for me, it's also not easy to use as a pure tablet.
On the other hand, iOS has a ton of pro-level apps for image, video and audio manipulation. Being able to DJ off an iPad or do DAW work is amazing. Now having a full Photoshop on the iPad Pro will make people less likely to buy a Surface. The iPad Pro can't replace a real laptop but for a lot of people, a full laptop is unnecessary.
There are Geekbench results online for IPad8,8 IPad8,4 IPad8,2: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/10589099 6 GByte Memory, Improved Bandwith. Single core results suggest that frequencies are the same as the iPhone's X's
With the specs side by side, we get a good comparison what actually changed. Besides the change in design and the more powerful SOC, there seems to be little that changed, i.e. screen, camera, etc. One of the key improvement from my perspective is the change to Type C since it is significantly more versatile than the proprietary lightning connection.
“...we also saw the removal of the 3.5mm headphone jack. Here again I’m just outright furious about the implications – not just because internal component space usage...”
Tough. You live in a litigious society.
Who said it was about internal space?
People are suing audio manufacturers for damaging their hearing.
Apple has added volume limiting to headphone volume unless you specifically disables it.
But the efficiency of headphones varies enormously.
With analogue headphones, the headphones cannot be identified to calculate the actual volume at the ear.
Can I opt out of this thickness race? 6.9mm vs 5.9mm isn't worth losing 3.5mm jack, 11% battery capacity and camera bump. Less than 8mm and my not so nimble fingers start to drop things, but maybe accidental drops are desirable feature for Apple.
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meikyoshisui - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
typo in title - should be 'Pros' not 'Pro's'.jroba - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
living la vida dongle!Speedfriend - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
And that screen looks wrong. The screen curve at the corner doesn't match the curve of the body and just looks ugly....Speedfriend - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Such innovation too - Apple have invented a stylus with a flat edge that magnetically attaches to the tablet...jameskatt - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
The Apple A12X SoC is also an amazing innovation, having a 10-billion transistor, 8 core CPU, 7 core GPU and 8 core Neural Engine = 18 core chip that is more powerful than 92% of all laptops.Apple also improved the audio quality available through USB-C since all previous USB-C headphones simply suck compared to Apple Lightning compatible headphones.
Spoelie - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Let's not forget that pricing is square in "laptop/ultrabook" territory - it would be interesting to do a modern comparison of what computing power you get for the same price, regardless of form factor.That's basically the gist of it, you get laptop-type performance at laptop-type prices, just with a different form factor.
Samus - Friday, November 2, 2018 - link
...and wirelessly charges. You got to admit that's pretty cool.Henry 3 Dogg - Sunday, November 11, 2018 - link
It matches it perfectly. They are concentric.Henry 3 Dogg - Sunday, November 11, 2018 - link
Dongles is ia personal choice. I just buy the right cable.IdBuRnS - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
And still no updated iPad Mini...close - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
With (i)Phones getting larger and larger the need for a small tablet is vanishing away. Yes, you'll definitely find a use case that makes total sense but chances are it's not one that will drive any meaningful sales numbers.zepi - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Or even worse: It might drive the sales of a $£299€ iPad and prevent sales of iPhone Xs/Max sales.close - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Sure... 299E/$/£. Because the current iPad Mini 4 definitely doesn't already cost you 400 and up. And an iPad Mini can undoubtedly do all the iPhone can do. Right?So you're saying people looking to buy an iPhone (a phone!) would give it up and go for a tablet instead because it's like a bigger phone so it must be better at... phoning ... Normally I'd be up for a good laugh but I'm pretty sure your explanation is nowhere near funny enough.
Phablets were a weird and relatively short lived trend when normal tablets were too chunky and phones still too small. There's still a chance they launch an iPad Mini 5 but it would still be very much a tablet not a phone or a phone replacement. A large phone is far more versatile than an 8" phablet/tablet can be. And remember that a tablet is at best a second device, *after* you have the phone.
WarlockOfOz - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Yes, but basic phone + small tablet is both cheap and practical. If all you want the phone for is calls and texts it doesn't even need to be smart... and it has a separate battery, so you can run the tablet right down without worrying about cutting yourself off.Speedfriend - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
I have 5 7in or 8in tablets. They are perfect for reading books on, watching movies on the go or let the kids watch cartoons. Large screen phones are in no way a substitute for these. What Apple's strategy with the iPad mini is, nobody knows except them. Apple often seems divorced from reality in decisions they make, stuck in the RDF that means they think they understand what clients want. Yet they are losing huge amounts of Mac clinets through this view.NetMage - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Except they announced a new high for Mac users yesterday.Speedfriend - Saturday, November 3, 2018 - link
But they have been confirming over 50% of sales are to new users for over the past year despite total unit sales hardly growing so they are adding new users and losing existing...Henry 3 Dogg - Sunday, November 11, 2018 - link
How many have you bought?fred666 - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Why did they keep lightning on the iPhone if they are switching on the iPad? Make no sense.DanNeely - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Functional? They've added additional output functionalities that needed more IO wires than lighting supported. In this case the plan was probably to trickle the port change down to the phones when the features needing them go down.Regulatory reasons and time to market? In which case next year's phones will probably do the same.
The EU's apparently not impressed with Apple claiming "we support USB charging via a dongle" as complying with their requirement for the industry to standardize on USB. If Apple became aware of the issue prior to the EU going public in August, it may have been too late to switch this year's phones over without slipping the date while the ipad could still be changed without missing the planned release date.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/08/eu-taking-...
melgross - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
I would think that there might be two reasons.One is that there are hundreds of products with slots and Lightning plugs. Manufacturers would need some time to become prepared.
But two is that consumers need some time. This is an even bigger change than the removal of the headphone jack. Leading with this gives people the time to adjust to change in iPhones, possibly next year.
hazydave - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
It does make sense. Apple's marking campaign for the new iPad Pro is pretty clearly going up against Windows laptop/tablet computers. They had an infographic claiming the iPad as the most popular computer sold (well, sure... at iPad prices), they have normalized the keyboard and improved the pen, etc. Lightning locks you into the Apple ecosystem, but it's old and slow. They do need to replace it.I think that going to USB Type-C on the iPad is a precursor to going to Type-C on an iPhone in a year or two. It's not just the port, it's figuring out how to make this work smoothly on an iOS device. How to deal with thousands of now-connectable devices that won't have drivers. Better hash this out on 40+ million devices than nearly 200 million.
Dug - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
One of the best features I see promoted is tethering to an external camera.I currently tether my Sony to a laptop to show clients pictures instantly, but really an ipad would be more desirable.
zepi - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Andrei, please do some proper A12X vs. X86 testing!Preferably with some relatively modern macbooks/airs.
Would be the most interesting article of the year for many of us (regardless of which year it’d land on).
xilience - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
+1 to this. I realize it would be fruitless to pretend the comparisons are apples (heh) to apples, but worth looking into where we are in the CPU arena and may give some insight into where we are on Apple's long term goal of presumably building their own laptop-class CPUs.8steve8 - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
more specifically i'd like to see ~5W apple CPU vs ~5W intel core CPU.let's see who's faster in the fanless weight class.
7nm vs 14+++++nm
less interesting, but still curious would be apple 5W vs intel 15W or 28W or whatever.. up to 95W 8/9th gen core models.
Speedfriend - Saturday, November 3, 2018 - link
But is the A12X actually a 5W chip?schujj07 - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Would have to make sure that the A12X is running a full monolithic OS as that will hinder performance quite a bit compared to iOS. Also has to be something more than Geek Bench which Apple seems to love as the end all be all comparison of their CPU/GPU to everything else.skavi - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
>a full monolithic OSYou don't know what this means.
name99 - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Apparently SOMEONE didn’t read the A12 article with its SPEC results...saratoga4 - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
More comparisons to x86 would be nice though, especially since Andrei had to modify a few of the tests to compile on iOS and because not many other people are still testing SPEC2006.tipoo - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
The A12 has a wider execution engine than even desktop Cores now, and lots of cache and otherwise is a beastly architecture.Why do people keep pretending it wouldn't perform well under another OS? If the OS was properly tailored to it, the architecture would be beastly wherever it was put.
melgross - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
I expect this to blow the 5-6 watt Intel part away. It’s actually more interesting to see how close these A12X compares to a 15 to 28 watt x86.hechacker1 - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
We honestly just need IOS13 to bring power user and multi-tasking features to make use of the A12. It's woefully underutilized at the moment.If you think about it, Apple's competing against their own product lineups. Either buy an iPad Pro and its accessories, and it roughly comes out to MBP price levels. Even the storage is roughly comparable.
It's the software ecosystem that's different, and a lack of Xcode on IOS still.
Dug - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
And allow different input besides screen, such as a mouseHStewart - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
I serious doubt we will ever have reliable results in this area. iOS has no since of desktop apps and Applets are designed differently than desktop applications. Plus with everything on the web now a days - it kind of skews everything.porcupineLTD - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
I seriously doubt you will ever stop shilling for Intel.HStewart - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
did I even mention Intel - in above statement - some people just assumeAlistair - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
There are a ton of reliable results. That argument really gets old.melgross - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Hmm. There are just two major lines of CPUs. I wonder which they are. Of course an SoC is much more sophisticated than the much simpler x86 design, considering all the extra functionality in the SoC. Also considering the far lower cost of the SoC, with Apple’s estimated by Microprocessor Reports as costing between $34 to 38, though it could be a bit higher this year. It’s also the highest cost SoC. Still, pretty cheap by intel, and even and standards. Heck, Apple could use two of these, and it would still be a lot cheaper.techconc - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
I guess the full Photoshop as demonstrated by Adobe doesn't count as a desktop app then?? Is that really what you're suggesting?NetMage - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Of everything were on the web, why would desktop apps matter? And can you name any significant difference between how "Applets" and desktop applications.are designed?And Photoshop won't be enough of a "desktop app" for you?
Valantar - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Definitely want that too. But ideally, find some way to measure power draw? If nothing else works, you could tear down the tablet and current clamp the battery connector (and display cable to subtract it from the equation)?tempestglen - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Agree, please test SPEC2006 for iPad Pro and MacBook Pro, both have 4 cores with 2.5-2.7GHz.melgross - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
I’d like to see performance comparisons between this and the new Surface Pro models.OFelix - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
The decision to have different aspect ratio on the 2 devices is weird?Also, too expensive! USB C is nice though and the pencil charging method is cool.
I want the iPad Mini Pro 8.9” version though ... if the price is right.
r3loaded - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Way too damn expensive for a tablet. C'mon Apple, there's premium pricing and then there's taking the piss, and this is clearly the latter.skavi - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Looks completely reasonable to me. Compare it to the Surface Pro or even the iPhone X.SaolDan - Friday, November 2, 2018 - link
Iphone X is overpriced and this is not at the same level of a surface pro. A12X looks like a great SoC and i hope intel responds accordingly but we all know thats not going to happen.name99 - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Some of us are willing to pay money for hassle-free devices. If you are not, that is fine. But why should the rest of us suffer because you are a cheapskate?asendra - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
I'm perfectly willing to pay for quality as my rMBP, iPhone X, AW2 and Air 2 will attest, and I also think they jumped the shark with this one.They even raised the price of the already obscenely priced stylus to 125$ ffs!! And 200$ for a shitty keybopard? COMMON.
And if rumors are true and all the models have 4gb of ram except the 1TB ones which have 6gb then that just hot garbage.
Alistair - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Buy your own keyboard for a few bucks and use that. Usb c also. The price is fine for the iPad pro, since it is more than 2 years ahead of any Android tablet, it will be fast for years, and feel great with the 120hz also.melgross - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
I haven’t seen those rumors anywhere. But adobe ran a real-time demo of a huge 3Gig many layered file. It ran just fine on the beta software. It worked just as well when they took that file and turned it into a 3D model and ran over 12 butterflies flying around, again rendered real-time, while walking around it and recording it on the ipad at the same time.However much memory it has, it’s obviously more than enough.
techconc - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
As compared to what?melgross - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
I guess the Surface Pro is way too expensive then.Stochastic - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
It's a shame that Apple is still gouging for extra storage. If the base 11" model shipped with 128GB storage and included the Apple Pencil, it would be much more appealing to me.asendra - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Base model should be 699$ with 128gb. The pencil can be an addon, but a 59$-79$ one, not 125$!! And the keyboard 129$-149$ tops.NetMage - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Build your own world class tablet and sell it for that.soliloquist - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
The small iPad Pro went from $650 to $800, and the larger iPad Pro went from $800 to $1,000.Pixel 3 starts at $800 (up from $650 for Pixel 2).
RTX 2080 FE at $800 (up from $700 for GTX 1080 FE).
New iPhone Xs starts at $1,000 and the Xs MAX going all the way up to $1,500 (up from iPhone 8 starting at $800 and the iPhone X going up to $1,150).
Prices are getting out of control...
Luc K - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Most didn't. For example phones you see more cheaper quality choices: Nokia 7.1 ($350) or upcoming OnePlus 6T ($550). And Galaxy S9 and LG G7 you get nowadays for around $600.Surface 2018 line refresh or latest HP/Dell laptops didn't get more expensive.
melgross - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Cheaper products are restrained in cost. Consumers won’t pay more. But flagship products can go up in price because consumers are willing to pay more for more.sonny73n - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Consumers with financial irresponsibility are just dumb asses.I bet you that the new iPhone costs less than $400 to make but sells for $1000. The iPhone 4S costs $196 to make, including manufacturing cost. Feel ripped-off yet?
steven75 - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Your car probably cost $15k to make and you paid $25k. Do you feel ripped off because you don't understand business 101?Dug - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
No because I could not in my entire lifetime make something as nice myself for the price you came up with. You really should take a class in business and just see how much it costs to keep good people employed, along with insurance, keeping the lights on, travel, legal fees, etc. etc.But I realize you can't look past the cost of actual components and don't understand how things are actually engineered, or how the resources are accumulated, or how to set up manufacturing, or set up a store, or set up service and support, or even comprehend supply chain. Oh lets not forget writing an entire operating system and supply free updates for the next 5 years.
jakeuten - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
The new iPad Pros are Gigabit (Cat 16) with 4x4 MIMO. Definitely not Cat 4.Xex360 - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
The prices are out of control as another commenter said, for the same price you can have a proper laptop with much more power (processing power and in functionality). And the bezels are too thin for a tablet, I still rock a Nexus 10 and its bezels are near perfect to be held easily.Papaspud - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Yea, when I see the top of the line.... at 1899$$$$, I just have to say ... no thanks.tipoo - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
I specced out the second lowest storage tier, keyboard and pencil, and it was 1800 dollars in Canada. That's a line I can't cross for a tablet with iOS's limits, no matter if it's more powerful than most small laptops.eastcoast_pete - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
I'd like to see a comparison of the MS's Surface (for the same ~ $1900 MRSP) to the top iPad Pro.NetMage - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Debatable whether a laptop would have more processing power, unlikely it would have both more processing power and similar battery life.And you've used the new iPads to know how their bezels are inadequate?
steven75 - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
"for the same price you can have a proper laptop with much more power"Nope. If this is what you think then you are not understanding where apple's at with the A12X.
AbRASiON - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Bloody parents give their iPad to kids at shopping malls, airports, flights.Without that standard headphone jack, be prepared to hear a lot more loud devices out in the wild.
First iPad I'll skip in a long long time. In guess I'm done with them.
techconc - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
These arguments are kind of funny. So, I guess nobody you know uses bluetooth headphones, right? Also, if you're going to be hassled with plugging something in, what's the big deal with using a dongle?Guspaz - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Why a camera bump? I don't even want a camera in my tablets, but it was fine when they just stayed out of the way. Now that they've even got a camera bump making the whole device wobbly (if the XS Max is any indication), they're making the user experience worse for something many people don't care about in a tablet.techconc - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Why? Because the alternative is to use a lesser quality camera or to purposely make the entire device thicker. No thanks...NetMage - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
For something you don't care about in a tablet.I do document photography for record purposes with mu
SeaGeezer - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
The camera bump disappears with a case installed. You do use a case don’t you?eastcoast_pete - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
@ Andrei: Thanks! Hope for/look forward to a deep dive on the A12x. Should be a beast, at least in the ultra-portable space. Also, I am curious about the SSDs in the 512 Gb and 1 TB models; do they use PCI-e or NVMe, or...?@ Apple: yeah and Boooh! Yeah, great tech, booh, the prices - ouch! How about a tablet for mere mortals who don't get Silicon Valley-type paychecks? Also, the differentiation between the higher end models of the iPad Pro and the Mac Air is getting complicated. If Apple's claims for the A12x pan out, their tablet is now outgunning most of their own laptops when it comes to compute power.
Lastly, I wonder if that claim about the A12x performance takes pricing into account. A $ 1700 laptop can readily include a quite capable four (maybe even six) core i7, and they're not slow.
melgross - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Apple sells a capable 9.7” tablet for $329.eastcoast_pete - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Yes, capable for media consumption, but notably last-gen tech. Apple has a unique way to make buyers of their cheaper (older) models feel crappy about having to buy cheaper models. Google and Samsung have been fast learners here, too, and are catching up.eastcoast_pete - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Forgot this BOOOH: As Andrei mentioned, the removal of the 3.5 mm headphone connector makes no sense whatsoever. These tablets almost scream for more, not fewer connectors, and, unlike phones, they have the space to accommodate them. For example an iPad Pro with two (!) USB-C connectors PLUS a 3.5 mm would be great; for example, attach external storage and a camera for some on-the-spot photo or video editing, or connect a portable keyboard to make music etc. iPads used to be the choice of creatives, now they're more for consumption than creation.melgross - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
They’re used more by creatives now than ever before.halcyon - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
They need to sell more cordless Beats crap to justify overspending on buyout of that company. Besides, the real margins are in the accessories.hmdqyg - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
Just wondering how much RAM the new iPad Pro has.halcyon - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Same here.tipoo - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Third'ed, Photoshop can take a lot of RAM and their massive image demonstration was impressive, would choke 4GB Windows systems. Wonder if it went up to 6-8 this year.Thraktor - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
The aspect ratio on the 11" iPad Pro is actually pretty close to √2:1. This is the same aspect ratio as A-series paper sizes (eg A4 paper), and has the property that if you divide the screen in half, each half will also have the aspect ratio √2:1 (which is also true recursively if you keep dividing in half).tipoo - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
A12X is sure to put a wholloping on current U series cores on performance...But ouch, that price, particularly in Canada. A 256GB model with a Pencil and keyboard is 1800 dollars, and I just can't bridge that mental gap for a tablet.serendip - Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - link
That A12X could end up in an ARM Macbook sooner or later. Let's hope the power efficiency matches expectations.What does Intel have to compete in the low-power segment? Atom is dead, Pentium Gold still can't compete on power and Core M is too expensive.
tipoo - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Funny enough A12X is sure to demolish the Y series Core in the brand new MBA.eastcoast_pete - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
I had the same thought/expectation ever since the A12 (w/o the "x") surfaced; the A12x has twice the number of big (Vortex) cores. The main obstacle is that, to run at speed, it requires the OS and the key software from MS and Adobe to run native on the A12x and its descendants. We'll know that Apple is serious about changing to in-house chips if a. iOS engineers are cross-teamed to the MacOS side and b. once Microsoft and Adobe work actively on porting their key programs to run native on Apple's own chips. The latter (porting of Office, Creative Suite and related offerings to run native on the A12x, A13x...) is the one that would make this a definite. The other indicator to watch is any forward-looking statement by Intel about fewer projected sales of certain chips that are mainly sold to Apple (Iris graphics containing lower power i5 and i7).serendip - Thursday, November 1, 2018 - link
Apple's second main architecture switch, from PowerPC to Intel, was made smoother with the Rosetta emulator. PPC Photoshop ran decently on Intel (I remember it well) but it only took a few months for Adobe to come up with an Intel port. After that, PowerPC was as good as dead.The same thing could happen with Apple's potential switch from Intel to ARM. Get Adobe and Microsoft on board with ARM ports ready on hardware release, on top of Apple's own pro apps and Intel Macbooks will be quickly forgotten by consumers. Ironically, Microsoft's ARM Windows efforts have shown that an x86 translator running on Qualcomm SoCs is viable and usable. Apple can do better based on its iOS-ARM experience and its superior SoCs.
Antony Newman - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Regarding Headphones:When in a mildly noisy environment - would you prefer to have headphones with active noise cancellation?
If you had the choice of tethered headphones - or the same model in wireless form - which would you prefer?
It seems to me that the best option is to have the signal sent digtially and wirelessly from the iPad to the headphone, where upon the headphone performs digital correction and cancellation it’s the fewest number of ADC DAC steps.
Perhaps the frustration is being felt by the headphone manufacturers who were hoping to avoid the R&D expenses in offering active noise cancelling products.
One of the benefits for teenagers who adopt noise cancellation headphones will be their won’t play their music so loud / and are more likely to keep their hearing intact!
AJ
hazydave - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Looks like Apple's trying to catch up to my Samsung S4 Tab here. Ok, I'd like to see Samsung make a 12" or so tablet -- I had a Pro Tab 12. 2 for some years. And yeah, the S4 is only 10.5", but that was last year's upgrade from 9.7", and it's OLED, not LED. Probably the best display in a tablet. Apple, no doubt, has the fastest CPUs and GPUs, because being vertically integrated, they can spend the money and power on higher-spec ARMs. But at least they've followed everyone else in dumping the button and going to a thin bezel. But it's still super risky without a good protective case.hazydave - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
Meant to write "OLED not LCD". I'm still surprised Apple, with their volumes, has remained so dependent on outside displays.steven75 - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
What do you display on that "best display in a tablet" since Android has (for all practical purposes) has no dedicated tablet apps? Blown up phone apps? Web pages? Do you just use it as a dumb monitor to watch movies?Stekelenburg - Thursday, November 1, 2018 - link
That's some next level denial.You do realize that those two are not the same category of products, right?
The closest comparison to Tab S4 in features and capabilties is the iPad (2018) + pen. Which is in fact cheaper than the S4.
In fact Apart from the screen there is nothing that the S4 does well. Low RAM even for an android phone (prepare for endless reloads), low end SoC (it is like a celeron compared to the "i7" of iPad pro), lower battery despite the more battery hungry components, Samsung literally gives up on her tablets in a year , 2 at most. One tenth of the amount of choice for tablet optimized apps. Where do you want me to stop? Oh , it is also heavier despite the smaller battery and screen than iPad pro 11.
Samsung literally does everything wrong with S4 and has the gall to price $100 less than iPad pro 11 (you can always use an extrnal drive to upgrade the storage now that it is compatible with peripherals).
Love the amoled though, and even considered it for a sec but then iPad pro was released and felt like a fool for even considering a ... bare screen. At $399 it can compete (the S4), at $699 it is DOA
yeeeeman - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
"Here Apple really demands quite the premium at $800 per TB of storage, and similarly I’m disappointed to see 64GB and not 128GB being the base model, even though the new generation is respectively $150 and $200 more expensive at launch" - that was quite a good joke. You act like you don't know how Apple reached over 1 T $ market cap.A good example would be iphone XR which is Galaxy S9 money but gives you a 720P ish screen.
osxandwindows - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
The iPhone XR likely more powerful than the s9 and will likely get more support.Cheeper in the long term, IMO.
iwod - Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - link
I don't think the Camera are the same as Xs. This iPad Pro Camera only have 5 lens and it is lacking OIS. So in terms of quality we are not sure if it really is better than previous gen.We saw A11 10nm and A12 7nm with the same basic uArch. Next iPad will likely come with better IPC and GPU. Further leading in performance along with a better 7nm. I am hoping we see 6GB RAM this year instead of having it next year.
LiverpoolFC5903 - Thursday, November 1, 2018 - link
The comparisons with laptops are useless, especially considering this cannot do something as basic as mouse connectivity. Good luck working on excel files with large amounts of data on a touch interface.The capabilities of the SOC cannot be tested properly in a gimped restricted OS like the IOS.
Lets list things you cannot do on an ipad
- connect a mouse
- access the file system
- connect usb peripherals like gamepads
- copy paste files from/to another device
- Run SPSS or stata for basic analysis
- use a non webkit based browser
Etc etc.
Used to think Anandrech was more balanced but looks like they have become an apple shill now. All praise for great apple and their great products.
This can never replace a real lsptop. The surface pro will run rings around any gimped ipad.
techconc - Thursday, November 1, 2018 - link
The iPad Pro is clearly a great device on any level. Whether it's the right device for you is irrelevant. It's rather sad that anytime you say something nice about an Apple product, people like you have to accuse the publication of not being "balanced". Anyone who doesn't share your particular opinion must be wrong then???serendip - Thursday, November 1, 2018 - link
There's a Surface for that :) I'm with you, my workflow involves weird Win32 programs and being an ultralight fanatic, I use a cheap Atom Windows tablet as my main computer. I hope to upgrade to a Surface Go soon. A Surface Pro is too big and too expensive for me, it's also not easy to use as a pure tablet.On the other hand, iOS has a ton of pro-level apps for image, video and audio manipulation. Being able to DJ off an iPad or do DAW work is amazing. Now having a full Photoshop on the iPad Pro will make people less likely to buy a Surface. The iPad Pro can't replace a real laptop but for a lot of people, a full laptop is unnecessary.
ben003 - Friday, November 2, 2018 - link
There are Geekbench results online for IPad8,8 IPad8,4 IPad8,2:https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/10589099
6 GByte Memory, Improved Bandwith. Single core results suggest that frequencies are the same as the iPhone's X's
watzupken - Tuesday, November 6, 2018 - link
With the specs side by side, we get a good comparison what actually changed. Besides the change in design and the more powerful SOC, there seems to be little that changed, i.e. screen, camera, etc. One of the key improvement from my perspective is the change to Type C since it is significantly more versatile than the proprietary lightning connection.Henry 3 Dogg - Sunday, November 11, 2018 - link
“...we also saw the removal of the 3.5mm headphone jack. Here again I’m just outright furious about the implications – not just because internal component space usage...”Tough. You live in a litigious society.
Who said it was about internal space?
People are suing audio manufacturers for damaging their hearing.
Apple has added volume limiting to headphone volume unless you specifically disables it.
But the efficiency of headphones varies enormously.
With analogue headphones, the headphones cannot be identified to calculate the actual volume at the ear.
Anato - Wednesday, November 28, 2018 - link
Can I opt out of this thickness race? 6.9mm vs 5.9mm isn't worth losing 3.5mm jack, 11% battery capacity and camera bump. Less than 8mm and my not so nimble fingers start to drop things, but maybe accidental drops are desirable feature for Apple.