Still running my ROG Swift from 2011, 1440p 144hz. Sure it's TN and isn't perfect but damn it was a good investment considering that the monitor industry came to such a stall afterwards. I could say the same for my 4770k ':)
Had one of those. It had the notorious color banding issue, not to mention it had an abysmal contrast-ratio of 520:1 measured with my Colormunki Display colorimeter.
I don't have a "munki" but I noticeably improved the accuracy of monitors with a Spyder and whatever the 3rd-party free calibration software is called. One of the nicest things is calibrating to paper instead of the blue-white that most monitors come with at stock.
It can be better than the awful displays from a decade ago.
8-bit color, calibration, and better back light quality can help a lot. But the crazy vertical color/gamma shifting is intrinsic to TN; and is worse at larger screen sizes because the difference in the angle between your eye and the top/bottom of the screen is larger.
A second issue is that 1st gen 240hz displays had flatout awful color quality and contrast compared to even other bad TN displays. Multiple people on HardOCP who had them said they couldn't recommend anyone buy one without seeing it in person first. I haven't seen anything about if gen 2 240hz panels are any better or not.
"Good" is relative. Better than 5 years ago, but still lagging IPS/VA, which are also better than 5 years ago. If this were 32", I would preorder it right now.
IPS still lags far behind TN on everything speed related. What is good or bad completely depends on your requirements. For an all-in-one gaming display, a panel like this is ideal. Very good gaming performance, but still decent at everything else.
Not really true. The PG279Q TN monitor has a response time average of 2.9ms (1ms is marketing bull, only the fastest transition, not the average, and not with normal OD) that allows up to 344hz. The new LG IPS gaming monitor averaged 4.8ms, which is also VERY low and would allow up to 208hz nicely. So honestly there are many great IPS gaming monitor options for 144-165hz. 240hz is a bigger problem, but in my experience, the only 240hz monitor I've bought, the Dell, had broken overdrive at 240hz and left large trails behind scrolling horizontal black or grey lines. It only worked properly at 144hz, so I went back to IPS since IPS works just as well at 144hz nowadays.
Alistair, are you talking about the new LG 27GL850 IPS panel? It's advertised as 1ms but reviews suggest it doesn't quite make it there.. but considering it's price, 144hz.. and low response time it's considered one of the better ones out there.
Yes, but LG is doing what the other people do, there is no 1ms TN monitor either. As I said, high end TN panels, like the PG278Q are about 3ms average GtG, and high end IPS like the LG are about 5ms GtG, both more than high enough to support 144hz.
When people think of slow IPS, they are thinking of old panels, or displays without quality overdrive. Native TN vs native IPS. But OD TN, vs OD IPS is very similar, and has been for a few years now. VA is the only one that isn't that fast today, as it suffers from slow dark transitions. VA can be fast overall, but slow with dark content, and often has poor text legibility as it has non standard sub pixel arrangement. Contrast is its one strong area.
IMO, we gained some great things moving away from CRT, but we also gave up a lot of great things. Unfortunately, the brutal reality is summed up in the Blur Busters Law: we need 1,000Hz displays. https://www.blurbusters.com/blur-busters-law-amazi...
How can you have a TN HDR monitor? I mean I guess technically that's possible, but honestly I'd avoid it. Oh, it's an 8 bit panel, not a 10 bit one. Sounds like they are faking it somehow.
TN has faster refresh rates, but worse color accuracy, and color space. So if you can live with 90% DCIP3 and only "fake" HDR 400, it's fine.
If you want 99% DCI-P3 color coverage, and (fake) HDR 600 or (real) HDR1000, then you need to go with an IPS panel. But you will lose the 240Hz refresh rate.
It's up to you to decide which one you prefer. If you really care about 240Hz more than colors and off angle viewing, that's fine. Different technologies with different trade-offs give you choice.
if you want better color/contrast/viewing angles, etc, you have to pay more and also give up some speed
people looking for the perfect monitor, you can stop, it doesn't exist, and certainly not for an affordable price. Even the newest $2500 Gsync Ultimate monitors have to compromise
So, two issues here: first, this is simply not HDR. It does not have a high dynamic range, so regardless of format support it falls the most basic requirements. Second, TN has nothing to do with available colourspace, but instead has issues with colour uniformity across the panel. Shifting the backlight primaries will not change this.
Does anyone know whether it has an internal or external (dongle) power supply?
I'm generally quite happy with the 1440p/144Hz IPS panel I'm using but the coil whine from the internal PSU is literally murdering my hearing and I'm looking for a replacement with an external PSU.
I have the OMEN 27 and it can be mounted using the VESA setup. It uses a plate that snaps in to where the armature attaches. It's not ideal but it works.
Two 1sts from HP in one year. First the 65 inch gsync bfd HP Omen X Emperium 65 at 4k hdr 1000 certified at 144hz and now this 1440p 240hz freesync 2 hdr 400 display. While the price is steep its the only displays on the market of its kind.
Could you make a case for false advertising when the marketing images for these monitors show full and perfect colour when showing the monitor at an angle. TN viewing angles are awful as we all know, so wonder if you could make that case.
There is also the "standing" evasion. You would have to buy the product in order to claim you've suffered damage, most likely. This is a further impediment to getting things fixed. Not only is there the legal cost, there is the cost of buying all of the products that are being sold under false pretenses.
Toothless consumer advocacy groups/agencies and pure nonsense like the on-the-take BBB are the alternative.
Even when you have an open-and-shut case, as with those who sued Sony over taking away Linux on PS3 (after Sony openly used that as a feature selling point in at least one ad) you can face an endless ordeal, complete with a huge corporation saying you're a bad person (as Sony did) and a nobody (as Sony did when it claimed that "no one" wants Linux on PS3).
The system is still staunchly on the side of caveat emptor, and that includes the ecological impact of products being inadequately factored into their price tag.
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skavi - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
is TN, like, good now?skavi - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
like I've heard good things about that TN Gsync Dell monitor.The Chill Blueberry - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
Still running my ROG Swift from 2011, 1440p 144hz. Sure it's TN and isn't perfect but damn it was a good investment considering that the monitor industry came to such a stall afterwards. I could say the same for my 4770k ':)The Chill Blueberry - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
PG278Q from 2014**darkchazz - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
Had one of those. It had the notorious color banding issue, not to mention it had an abysmal contrast-ratio of 520:1 measured with my Colormunki Display colorimeter.kn00tcn - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
are you sure that was running rgb-full? arent most calibrated monitors resulting in low contrast?jabber - Saturday, August 24, 2019 - link
I have to say I've seen many 'calibrated' monitors and all I can say is those calibration sensors have a warped sense of what reality looks like."Is white really that orange?"
Oxford Guy - Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - link
I don't have a "munki" but I noticeably improved the accuracy of monitors with a Spyder and whatever the 3rd-party free calibration software is called. One of the nicest things is calibrating to paper instead of the blue-white that most monitors come with at stock.darkchazz - Sunday, August 25, 2019 - link
Yes it was on RGB Full.DanNeely - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
It can be better than the awful displays from a decade ago.8-bit color, calibration, and better back light quality can help a lot. But the crazy vertical color/gamma shifting is intrinsic to TN; and is worse at larger screen sizes because the difference in the angle between your eye and the top/bottom of the screen is larger.
A second issue is that 1st gen 240hz displays had flatout awful color quality and contrast compared to even other bad TN displays. Multiple people on HardOCP who had them said they couldn't recommend anyone buy one without seeing it in person first. I haven't seen anything about if gen 2 240hz panels are any better or not.
nathanddrews - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
"Good" is relative. Better than 5 years ago, but still lagging IPS/VA, which are also better than 5 years ago. If this were 32", I would preorder it right now.Alexvrb - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
IPS still lags far behind TN on everything speed related. What is good or bad completely depends on your requirements. For an all-in-one gaming display, a panel like this is ideal. Very good gaming performance, but still decent at everything else.Alistair - Saturday, August 24, 2019 - link
Not really true. The PG279Q TN monitor has a response time average of 2.9ms (1ms is marketing bull, only the fastest transition, not the average, and not with normal OD) that allows up to 344hz. The new LG IPS gaming monitor averaged 4.8ms, which is also VERY low and would allow up to 208hz nicely. So honestly there are many great IPS gaming monitor options for 144-165hz. 240hz is a bigger problem, but in my experience, the only 240hz monitor I've bought, the Dell, had broken overdrive at 240hz and left large trails behind scrolling horizontal black or grey lines. It only worked properly at 144hz, so I went back to IPS since IPS works just as well at 144hz nowadays.Alistair - Saturday, August 24, 2019 - link
I meant PG278Q earlier, the PG279Q is the IPS one.just4U - Saturday, August 24, 2019 - link
Alistair, are you talking about the new LG 27GL850 IPS panel? It's advertised as 1ms but reviews suggest it doesn't quite make it there.. but considering it's price, 144hz.. and low response time it's considered one of the better ones out there.Alistair - Saturday, August 24, 2019 - link
Yes, but LG is doing what the other people do, there is no 1ms TN monitor either. As I said, high end TN panels, like the PG278Q are about 3ms average GtG, and high end IPS like the LG are about 5ms GtG, both more than high enough to support 144hz.When people think of slow IPS, they are thinking of old panels, or displays without quality overdrive. Native TN vs native IPS. But OD TN, vs OD IPS is very similar, and has been for a few years now. VA is the only one that isn't that fast today, as it suffers from slow dark transitions. VA can be fast overall, but slow with dark content, and often has poor text legibility as it has non standard sub pixel arrangement. Contrast is its one strong area.
nathanddrews - Tuesday, August 27, 2019 - link
Alistair is probably referencing this excellent video by HU:https://youtu.be/081ccrxYwDo
IMO, we gained some great things moving away from CRT, but we also gave up a lot of great things. Unfortunately, the brutal reality is summed up in the Blur Busters Law: we need 1,000Hz displays. https://www.blurbusters.com/blur-busters-law-amazi...
eek2121 - Monday, August 26, 2019 - link
Yeah I only buy IPS monitors these days. I'll take the 'glow' over poor color reproduction and viewing angles any day.Oxford Guy - Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - link
If monitor makers wouldn't cheap-out, IPS glow can be eliminated with the addition of a polarizer.eek2121 - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
How can you have a TN HDR monitor? I mean I guess technically that's possible, but honestly I'd avoid it. Oh, it's an 8 bit panel, not a 10 bit one. Sounds like they are faking it somehow.Hul8 - Saturday, August 24, 2019 - link
"Faking it" is allowed in HDR specs: You can output in 8-bit+FRC, as long as the processing is at least 10-bit.Oxford Guy - Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - link
The processing isn't the issue. The main issue is the backlight's gamut.Processing mainly is an issue with banding, not overall gamut.
WinterCharm - Saturday, August 24, 2019 - link
Like anything else in tech, it's a tradeoff.TN has faster refresh rates, but worse color accuracy, and color space. So if you can live with 90% DCIP3 and only "fake" HDR 400, it's fine.
If you want 99% DCI-P3 color coverage, and (fake) HDR 600 or (real) HDR1000, then you need to go with an IPS panel. But you will lose the 240Hz refresh rate.
It's up to you to decide which one you prefer. If you really care about 240Hz more than colors and off angle viewing, that's fine. Different technologies with different trade-offs give you choice.
Alistair - Saturday, August 24, 2019 - link
Yeah IPS can't really handle 240hz yet, but 165hz is fine for the best ones.eek2121 - Monday, August 26, 2019 - link
People need to wake up and realize 4K gaming is a thing.MarcusMo - Monday, August 26, 2019 - link
Interfaces driving 4k@240hz is not a thing yet though. Nor are graphics cards capable of sustaining that kind of framerate consistently in 4k.Oxford Guy - Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - link
I seriously doubt that anything inherent to TN pixels is responsible for the 90%. The backlight's gamut is what is responsible.Take the same backlight and pair it with IPS pixels and you will most likely have the same 90%.
bunnyfubbles - Sunday, August 25, 2019 - link
for speed and cost, yesif you want better color/contrast/viewing angles, etc, you have to pay more and also give up some speed
people looking for the perfect monitor, you can stop, it doesn't exist, and certainly not for an affordable price. Even the newest $2500 Gsync Ultimate monitors have to compromise
yetanotherhuman - Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - link
noedzieba - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
So, two issues here: first, this is simply not HDR. It does not have a high dynamic range, so regardless of format support it falls the most basic requirements. Second, TN has nothing to do with available colourspace, but instead has issues with colour uniformity across the panel. Shifting the backlight primaries will not change this.Exodite - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
Does anyone know whether it has an internal or external (dongle) power supply?I'm generally quite happy with the 1440p/144Hz IPS panel I'm using but the coil whine from the internal PSU is literally murdering my hearing and I'm looking for a replacement with an external PSU.
Lakados - Friday, August 23, 2019 - link
Why no VESA love...DanNeely - Saturday, August 24, 2019 - link
According to the HP page it does have vesa mounting points, so you should be able to swap a different stand on.SkyBill40 - Sunday, August 25, 2019 - link
I have the OMEN 27 and it can be mounted using the VESA setup. It uses a plate that snaps in to where the armature attaches. It's not ideal but it works.jabber - Saturday, August 24, 2019 - link
Be nice if all standard monitors started moving up to just 75Hz as a base standard. I'll take an extra 25% being thrown up on screen.Alistair - Saturday, August 24, 2019 - link
Better yet for compatibility with 30 and 60hz content, a monitor manufacturer out there should say "buy our brand, every monitor is 90hz or higher".p1esk - Saturday, August 24, 2019 - link
What is the game shown on the monitor?blzd - Sunday, August 25, 2019 - link
No height adjustment at this price range is a little disappointing.SkyBill40 - Monday, August 26, 2019 - link
It *has* height adjustment. It slides up and down in the vertical mounting arm. Can you not see that when looking at the side by side pic above?godrilla - Sunday, August 25, 2019 - link
Two 1sts from HP in one year. First the 65 inch gsync bfd HP Omen X Emperium 65 at 4k hdr 1000 certified at 144hz and now this 1440p 240hz freesync 2 hdr 400 display. While the price is steep its the only displays on the market of its kind.flyingpants265 - Sunday, August 25, 2019 - link
Once you go 40"+, you don't go back. All these monitors are an utter waste of time for someone like me.samal90 - Monday, August 26, 2019 - link
contrast ratios are still very bad on PC monitors. THey really need to have those higher at around at least 3000:1Golgatha777 - Monday, August 26, 2019 - link
For backlit HDR TVs, the Standard is about 1000 cd/m2 peak brightness and a 20,000:1 contrast ratio to be considered "real" HDR.Source - https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-uhd-alliance-pre...
samal90 - Monday, August 26, 2019 - link
I would cut it at least in half on monitors because nobody wants 1000 nits of brightness 2 feet away from their eyes.Oxford Guy - Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - link
Commercials.HDR is a clever invention of the advertising industry, disguised as an improvement for consumers.
Retina burn-in is part of the fun. You'll see afterglows of their logos forever!
Wardrop - Tuesday, August 27, 2019 - link
Could you make a case for false advertising when the marketing images for these monitors show full and perfect colour when showing the monitor at an angle. TN viewing angles are awful as we all know, so wonder if you could make that case.Oxford Guy - Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - link
Companies rely on people not being able to afford attorneys.False advertising happens constantly as a result.
Oxford Guy - Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - link
There is also the "standing" evasion. You would have to buy the product in order to claim you've suffered damage, most likely. This is a further impediment to getting things fixed. Not only is there the legal cost, there is the cost of buying all of the products that are being sold under false pretenses.Toothless consumer advocacy groups/agencies and pure nonsense like the on-the-take BBB are the alternative.
Even when you have an open-and-shut case, as with those who sued Sony over taking away Linux on PS3 (after Sony openly used that as a feature selling point in at least one ad) you can face an endless ordeal, complete with a huge corporation saying you're a bad person (as Sony did) and a nobody (as Sony did when it claimed that "no one" wants Linux on PS3).
The system is still staunchly on the side of caveat emptor, and that includes the ecological impact of products being inadequately factored into their price tag.
Oxford Guy - Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - link
Funny how input lag is missing from the chart.Is this really 2019?