I took a quick look at your link but quit looking when I saw they were testing SQL Server as one of their tests and with 15,000 virtual users. Completely useless use case. Even if you are are a software developer running a local copy of SQL Server, you won't be testing 15K users. So its performance somewhat pales in comparison to many full size m.2 SSD's. There are trade-offs to every component and in a laptop, particularly a thin and light laptop, those trade-offs usually have to favor saving space and power efficiency. It accomplishes those two goals on its own plus the smaller size may enable a larger battery in some systems. so what if your 2 TB 970 Evo outperforms it. The people buying the systems where this would be used won't care. It seems pretty ideally suited to its target audience.
I second that being a silly review. This is, as the article here states multiple times, for space-constrained devices. The BG4 more than meets the needs of these. As a bonus to us as customers, it means manufacturers are less likely to solder down the SSDs, so we can actually replace/upgrade them.
I recently picked up a Dell Optiplex 3070 Micro for a family member, and it shipped with a 128GB BG4. Performance of the 128GB model is going to obviously be much lower than the 1TB model tested here.
From my anecdotal experience, performance is acceptable, but could easily be better. I replaced it with a 1TB XG6 (~$120 from eBay) - mostly for capacity, but the performance uplift was (understandably) noticeable.
While I guess it reduces the worries about a soldered down SSD somewhat, I just hope they'll continue to sell even ultrabooks with M.2 or XFMExpress: Just feels safer and helps reducing iSurcharges on capacity.
I don’t see why most manufacturers wouldn’t see it as useful as well. Surely it would allow for less replacement motherboards needed if they could simply change the drive size. But what do I know.
Nobody considers it essential because relying on removing your SSD for data recovery if the motherboard fails is a deeply flawed strategy and not applicable to the vast majority of people who wouldn't even consider opening their laptop nevermind knowing how to remove the drive and access it outside the laptop.
The same thing that saves you if your SSD fails will also save you if anything else makes the machine unbootable - a proper backup.
You haven't had people come to you because their laptop has died but they need their data? Consumers may not be ready or able to get data from a dead laptop that has a drive you can remove, but the places they turn to SHOULD be able to.
Tell me, can you recover data from a dead Macbook(dead motherboard) these days with the storage on the motherboard yourself? If the motherboard in your own personal laptop failed, wouldn't YOU want to be able to pull the drive if you needed data from it?
Those who know me well enough to entrust me with their computer, know me well enough not to come close with a Macbook.
And I am not even all *that* prejudiced. I loved my Apple ][ (clone), went for the PC because even my 80286 already ran Unix and I was a computer scientist after all.
I keep doing Hackintoshs every now and then, just to get an understanding of how a Mac feels and because it's a bit of a challenge.
But it's seriously behind in just about every aspect important to me: The combination of Linux and Windows gives me much more in any direction, for work and for fun. And mixing both is much less of a technical issue than life-balance.
And then the notion of having your most personal handheld computer managed by an external party is just so wrong, I am flabbergasted that Apple managers still walk free, when computer sabotage is a felony.
The Apple ][ didn't even screw down the top lid. Swapping out components and parts, adding all sorts of functionality and upgrades made it great.
This solid brick of aluminum, glue, soldered on chips and hapless keyboard mechanics they call an Apple computer these days is just so wrong, I'd throw it into recycling the minute I got one for free. I don't know if I could give an Apple notebook or phone even to a foe, let alone a friend.
Since Microsoft used this in the Surface Laptop 3, I wonder if they also used it in the Surface Pro X since that also has a removable SSD. I'll be interested to find out...
Now we just need them to apply this tech to a standard 2280 form factor and give us a 4TB m.2 SSD, doesn't have to have best in class performance just a consumer class 4TB m.2 SSD.
There are a few 4 TB m.2 SSDs out there, they just sell out FAST so you typically won't even find them listed. You can still find plenty of 2 TB m.2 SSDs.
Looks like the takeaway from this is although Toshiba SSDs consistently fall behind Samsungs (the main reason they're regarded as the short straw in flash lottery), they may be more efficient, but hardly anybody tests for that.
The Toshiba BG4 is actually already available in the M.2 2242 format in retail channels as the Sabrent SB-1342-2TB, SB-1342-1TB, and SB-1342-512: https://www.sabrent.com/product/SB-1342-2TB
Yes, that's right: there's a 2TB 2242 variant! I was hesitant to believe it was actually available in that capacity, as I didn't see any sort of announcement, but I received one on Thursday and I can confirm it's quite real.
Unfortunately, these aren't useful for most current laptops with 2242 slots (that are primarily included for WWAN but which can also use NVMe drives like the RC100). As these SSDs use four PCIe lanes, they require the M key, while all laptops that I know of direct two (or less) PCIe lanes to the 2242 slot, and thus have a B key that prevents use of these drives.
So there probably won't be much of a market for these until there are laptops out with M-keyed M.2 2242 slots. It would be great to see a 2-lane variant with a B key in the short term for use in current laptops.
I mixed terminology up a little bit in my prior post. The Sabrent drives use Toshiba BiCS4 NAND (which is also used by in the Toshiba BG4), but these are not rebranded variants of the same drive. Apologies for any confusion.
So they already have brands Toshiba, Lite-On and Plextor, all pretty valuable and respectable (esp Plextor I think), why do they feel like they need another one?
The decision to rebrand from Toshiba to Kioxia was made before the decision to buy Lite-On's SSD business. Continuing to use the Toshiba brand name long-term isn't an option since they aren't part of the Toshiba conglomerate anymore and need to IPO under a name they own. They don't get to use the Lite-On name either because they didn't buy the whole company, just the SSD portion. They might now own the Plextor brand.
If the laptop maker has a decent design, then it would make more sense to go with a small capacity SSD to keep the laptop price down and then put a better SSD in yourself. Get something with a normal 1TB hard drive but has the support for NVMe, and you then throw in a 1TB drive yourself. No need to feed the stupidity of people wanting a tiny machine that has a slow processor just to keep power demands low. Going with even a 35 or 45 watt CPU with a 15 inch display will give you a much more powerful laptop than these 15W CPU machines with a 11 inch screen designed for people who sit in meetings all day but have much lower performance.
At least we are beyond the days of Intel Atom crap machines in that space.
You can actually get a external USB-C SSD that uses this particular Toshiba BG4 SSD. It’s made by CalDigit know for its excellent Thunderbolt 3 docks. It’s called Tuff Nano and at the moment only comes in the ½ terabyte capacity. The read speed is just over 1GB/s (if the device USB-C supports USB3.x Gen2). And it’s tiny:l:
Bought a Dell Inspiron 15 with an AMD processor recently. Dell claimed the laptop was "fixed form factor, but after removing some screws and gently prying the thing open, a wealth of upgrade options were presented. This system had one of the 2230's installed ... sized at 256GB. The board had space for a full 2280 as well as another 2.5mm drive. I installed a 512GB 2280 NVMe and 1GB 2.5mm SSD, and doubled the RAM ... for a fraction of the price Dell would have sold it to me in more expensive configurations.
Bottom line ... if manufacturers are putting 2230's in consumer laptops, they aren't doing the consumer any favors ... also, if you're buying a "fixed form factor" laptop to save a few $$$, with some careful and steady hands, you'll likely find you can upgrade the sucker significantly.
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31 Comments
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intelati - Friday, October 18, 2019 - link
That last image is absolutely ridiculous. You get good performing 1TB of SSD storage on a postage stand.Jesus H Christ.
MaxUserName - Friday, October 18, 2019 - link
No, BG4 have too poor performance:https://www.storagereview.com/toshiba_bg4_nvme_ssd...
Ratman6161 - Friday, October 18, 2019 - link
I took a quick look at your link but quit looking when I saw they were testing SQL Server as one of their tests and with 15,000 virtual users. Completely useless use case. Even if you are are a software developer running a local copy of SQL Server, you won't be testing 15K users. So its performance somewhat pales in comparison to many full size m.2 SSD's. There are trade-offs to every component and in a laptop, particularly a thin and light laptop, those trade-offs usually have to favor saving space and power efficiency. It accomplishes those two goals on its own plus the smaller size may enable a larger battery in some systems. so what if your 2 TB 970 Evo outperforms it. The people buying the systems where this would be used won't care. It seems pretty ideally suited to its target audience.Tams80 - Friday, October 18, 2019 - link
I second that being a silly review.This is, as the article here states multiple times, for space-constrained devices. The BG4 more than meets the needs of these. As a bonus to us as customers, it means manufacturers are less likely to solder down the SSDs, so we can actually replace/upgrade them.
0ldman79 - Wednesday, November 13, 2019 - link
We're looking at a review right now.It's not as fast as NVME but it's faster than SATA on most benchmarks.
It's a quarter size of most NVME drives.
svan1971 - Saturday, October 19, 2019 - link
Lord, learn how to spell stamp, amen.wenart - Sunday, October 20, 2019 - link
Does Jesus have a second name?Jambe - Thursday, October 24, 2019 - link
Hieronymus, obviously.ToTTenTranz - Friday, October 18, 2019 - link
The Smach-Z uses a 2230 M.2 NVMe slot.Just saying.
Kishoreshack - Friday, October 18, 2019 - link
Excellent reviewdeep dive into the ssd we will get in our laptops
I just hope these form factors become common
&
are adopted for every laptop
MrCommunistGen - Friday, October 18, 2019 - link
I recently picked up a Dell Optiplex 3070 Micro for a family member, and it shipped with a 128GB BG4. Performance of the 128GB model is going to obviously be much lower than the 1TB model tested here.From my anecdotal experience, performance is acceptable, but could easily be better. I replaced it with a 1TB XG6 (~$120 from eBay) - mostly for capacity, but the performance uplift was (understandably) noticeable.
abufrejoval - Friday, October 18, 2019 - link
Nice review for a solid product: Thanks!While I guess it reduces the worries about a soldered down SSD somewhat, I just hope they'll continue to sell even ultrabooks with M.2 or XFMExpress: Just feels safer and helps reducing iSurcharges on capacity.
Targon - Friday, October 18, 2019 - link
Agreed. If the motherboard fails, being able to remove the SSD for data recovery SHOULD be seen as essential by most people.Wheaties88 - Friday, October 18, 2019 - link
I don’t see why most manufacturers wouldn’t see it as useful as well. Surely it would allow for less replacement motherboards needed if they could simply change the drive size. But what do I know.kingpotnoodle - Monday, October 21, 2019 - link
Nobody considers it essential because relying on removing your SSD for data recovery if the motherboard fails is a deeply flawed strategy and not applicable to the vast majority of people who wouldn't even consider opening their laptop nevermind knowing how to remove the drive and access it outside the laptop.The same thing that saves you if your SSD fails will also save you if anything else makes the machine unbootable - a proper backup.
Targon - Monday, October 21, 2019 - link
You haven't had people come to you because their laptop has died but they need their data? Consumers may not be ready or able to get data from a dead laptop that has a drive you can remove, but the places they turn to SHOULD be able to.Tell me, can you recover data from a dead Macbook(dead motherboard) these days with the storage on the motherboard yourself? If the motherboard in your own personal laptop failed, wouldn't YOU want to be able to pull the drive if you needed data from it?
abufrejoval - Friday, October 25, 2019 - link
Those who know me well enough to entrust me with their computer, know me well enough not to come close with a Macbook.And I am not even all *that* prejudiced. I loved my Apple ][ (clone), went for the PC because even my 80286 already ran Unix and I was a computer scientist after all.
I keep doing Hackintoshs every now and then, just to get an understanding of how a Mac feels and because it's a bit of a challenge.
But it's seriously behind in just about every aspect important to me: The combination of Linux and Windows gives me much more in any direction, for work and for fun. And mixing both is much less of a technical issue than life-balance.
And then the notion of having your most personal handheld computer managed by an external party is just so wrong, I am flabbergasted that Apple managers still walk free, when computer sabotage is a felony.
The Apple ][ didn't even screw down the top lid. Swapping out components and parts, adding all sorts of functionality and upgrades made it great.
This solid brick of aluminum, glue, soldered on chips and hapless keyboard mechanics they call an Apple computer these days is just so wrong, I'd throw it into recycling the minute I got one for free. I don't know if I could give an Apple notebook or phone even to a foe, let alone a friend.
domboy - Friday, October 18, 2019 - link
Since Microsoft used this in the Surface Laptop 3, I wonder if they also used it in the Surface Pro X since that also has a removable SSD. I'll be interested to find out...taz-nz - Friday, October 18, 2019 - link
Now we just need them to apply this tech to a standard 2280 form factor and give us a 4TB m.2 SSD, doesn't have to have best in class performance just a consumer class 4TB m.2 SSD.Death666Angel - Saturday, October 19, 2019 - link
There already are Samsung and Toshiba 4TB M,2 drives.eek2121 - Sunday, October 20, 2019 - link
There are a few 4 TB m.2 SSDs out there, they just sell out FAST so you typically won't even find them listed. You can still find plenty of 2 TB m.2 SSDs.mxnerd - Saturday, October 19, 2019 - link
Kioxia? Great product but what a bad brand name.s.yu - Sunday, October 20, 2019 - link
No surprise coming from Japanese manufacturers recently........s.yu - Sunday, October 20, 2019 - link
Looks like the takeaway from this is although Toshiba SSDs consistently fall behind Samsungs (the main reason they're regarded as the short straw in flash lottery), they may be more efficient, but hardly anybody tests for that.discostrings - Sunday, October 20, 2019 - link
The Toshiba BG4 is actually already available in the M.2 2242 format in retail channels as the Sabrent SB-1342-2TB, SB-1342-1TB, and SB-1342-512:https://www.sabrent.com/product/SB-1342-2TB
Yes, that's right: there's a 2TB 2242 variant! I was hesitant to believe it was actually available in that capacity, as I didn't see any sort of announcement, but I received one on Thursday and I can confirm it's quite real.
Unfortunately, these aren't useful for most current laptops with 2242 slots (that are primarily included for WWAN but which can also use NVMe drives like the RC100). As these SSDs use four PCIe lanes, they require the M key, while all laptops that I know of direct two (or less) PCIe lanes to the 2242 slot, and thus have a B key that prevents use of these drives.
So there probably won't be much of a market for these until there are laptops out with M-keyed M.2 2242 slots. It would be great to see a 2-lane variant with a B key in the short term for use in current laptops.
discostrings - Sunday, October 20, 2019 - link
I mixed terminology up a little bit in my prior post. The Sabrent drives use Toshiba BiCS4 NAND (which is also used by in the Toshiba BG4), but these are not rebranded variants of the same drive. Apologies for any confusion.peevee - Monday, October 21, 2019 - link
So they already have brands Toshiba, Lite-On and Plextor, all pretty valuable and respectable (esp Plextor I think), why do they feel like they need another one?Billy Tallis - Monday, October 21, 2019 - link
The decision to rebrand from Toshiba to Kioxia was made before the decision to buy Lite-On's SSD business. Continuing to use the Toshiba brand name long-term isn't an option since they aren't part of the Toshiba conglomerate anymore and need to IPO under a name they own. They don't get to use the Lite-On name either because they didn't buy the whole company, just the SSD portion. They might now own the Plextor brand.Targon - Monday, October 21, 2019 - link
If the laptop maker has a decent design, then it would make more sense to go with a small capacity SSD to keep the laptop price down and then put a better SSD in yourself. Get something with a normal 1TB hard drive but has the support for NVMe, and you then throw in a 1TB drive yourself. No need to feed the stupidity of people wanting a tiny machine that has a slow processor just to keep power demands low. Going with even a 35 or 45 watt CPU with a 15 inch display will give you a much more powerful laptop than these 15W CPU machines with a 11 inch screen designed for people who sit in meetings all day but have much lower performance.At least we are beyond the days of Intel Atom crap machines in that space.
MykeM - Thursday, October 31, 2019 - link
You can actually get a external USB-C SSD that uses this particular Toshiba BG4 SSD. It’s made by CalDigit know for its excellent Thunderbolt 3 docks. It’s called Tuff Nano and at the moment only comes in the ½ terabyte capacity. The read speed is just over 1GB/s (if the device USB-C supports USB3.x Gen2). And it’s tiny:l:https://www.caldigit.com/tuff-nano
cschlise - Thursday, October 31, 2019 - link
Bought a Dell Inspiron 15 with an AMD processor recently. Dell claimed the laptop was "fixed form factor, but after removing some screws and gently prying the thing open, a wealth of upgrade options were presented. This system had one of the 2230's installed ... sized at 256GB. The board had space for a full 2280 as well as another 2.5mm drive. I installed a 512GB 2280 NVMe and 1GB 2.5mm SSD, and doubled the RAM ... for a fraction of the price Dell would have sold it to me in more expensive configurations.Bottom line ... if manufacturers are putting 2230's in consumer laptops, they aren't doing the consumer any favors ... also, if you're buying a "fixed form factor" laptop to save a few $$$, with some careful and steady hands, you'll likely find you can upgrade the sucker significantly.