I mean they were still making Pentium's well into 2010's if you consider the Atom... :)
But I agree it's ridiculous they are still going to produce 4-generation old parts into next year...you can't even get motherboards for these things anymore.
You and others seem to forget they are making them..because they have customers for them. Just because you don't know the applications used for the CPU doesn't mean it doesn't have a market. Even motherboards don't have to actually be sold to consumers for these CPU, they could be custom in house boards for testing or something for specific applications.
One could argue that lots of the CPUs from intel or amd shouldnt even be made anymore..but they are.
I guess I should have emphasized the elephant in the room here: all of these old architectures don’t have silicon level fixes for spectre and meltdown. That’s why the new architecture parts are in such short supply because that’s all customers want. Intel has literally said this. They can’t make them fast enough.
Actually in newer processors the Pentium's like G4600 or so listed about Pentium M actually have move closer to iSeries except for lower voltage. Architexture with at least 7 and 8 series not much different and I saw absolute no difference with new 10nm series except for power. It would be very interesting to see the performance. 10th series even has AVX-512
No editing here what I meant the G4600 Pentiums are closer to Atom, But you mention Pentium M which you might be close - not to be confuse with Core - M which is close to I series.
come on hstewart... learn how to spell architecture correctly !!!!!!!! for some one who " claims " to know so much about computers and says they have had the jobs in that industry for 30 years.. and you cant even spell that word correctly ??????
If for no other reason, the 486 Dx was a lot less power hungry than the Pentium and Pentium II, and perfectly suitable for office use with the Windows versions before Win95. Also a lot cheaper.
Because as the process matures and R&D is paid for, costs go down. That means they actually make the most money on their older chips, even with price cuts. AMD uses the same strategy.
@drexnx ... "why were they even still making these?"
They guarantee supply of the embedded version of their chips for 7 years which are the same die on the same process...so they need to keep production going to support the embedded version. WIth the non embedded version, they can do the EOL notice any time before the EOL of the embedded version, it could depend on demand or the lasiness of the person that formally does the EOL notice :-)
The embedded versions are marked IoT in the table. IT departments also like to support kit as replacing someone's computer can be surprisingly expensive.
And as long as they have to keep making the base die for the guaranteed long availability models it costs them almost nothing to bin a few of the chips into other models for anyone who actually wants them. Mostly embedded customers with slightly faster product turnover rates I assume.
When making a product companies often make deals with manufacturers to keep certain parts in production, so that they can keep producing their own product for as long as possible without needing to refresh the design every couple of years. Those deals might have ran out by now, which is why they're now marked as EOL.
I think they continued selling them, for awhile, because it enabled people to post using capitals at the start of sentences. I think they've given up. :)
if YOU were not aware, just because Intel has a "higher 14nm version" does NOT auto mean better performance...there ARE + / - one generation to the next....Intel has been busting their butt (as well as their massive bank accounts etc) JUST to stay "relevant" (competing with others using "near same" die size, transistor size, gate pitch all that fancy stuff.
to my Knowledge, really the only "new chips" Intel has release in past few years that are beasts (chew power to try and prove how beastly) 9900 (various models)
beyond such....2000 got replaced by 3000 (not really worth at all) 4000 (some were better, not all) 5000/6000 (these were pretty much the "turn point" "overall" i.e go from max performance with an eye on power use to max power use reduction WHILE keeping performance up, 7000 mostly increase over 6000, 8000 far as I am aware, they "back peddle" performance to gain in other ways, then there is 9000 generation (one they are shipping currently)
the 9600 mehh 6-7-8000 had direct compete with bt overall, 9000 is the "new" balance point for Intel in regards that they can make a lean chip, or drive it to mach10 level (use copious power produce lots of heat, not even Intel can go beyond physics limitations)
IMO they likely ONLY doing this because they see is maybe that much more $$$$ for THEM to keep producing old (likely pricey) tooling for a few "ok sellers" the rest have been replaced for years effectively
there is also the other side that Intel has NOT really highlighted as of late
SECURITY
maybe they also getting rid of the "old insecure" to maybe try to get a full top to bottom as secure as can be designs............
AFAIK, the answer basically boils down to Windows 7.
Windows 7 won't run on anything newer than Skylake (but it will run on a 200-series platform even with a Skylake processor). So, you need Skylakes for that.
And, if you're still producing 200-series platforms, have Kaby Lakes around for those using Win10 on those platforms, so only the CPU has to be different between Win7 and Win10 deployments?
Remember when Intel released another Quad Core as their mainstream high-end processor, then AMD came out with Ryzen, a processor that had double the cores and it forced them to announce 8th Gen only 3 months after starting to sell this generation... Competition is a good thing otherwise we would still be stuck at 4 hyper-threaded cores for the high-end.
It is interesting to watch Intel scramble to respond to AMD, but I don't think killing off desktop Kaby Lake is a result of any specific AMD activities. Desktop sales are sluggish at best to begin with. A few workstations in limited roles in businesses are being purchased and there are the low-volume gaming boxes out there, but the reality is that Joe Average buys a laptop (or just uses a mobile phone) and companies and governments issue out bland Probooks and Latitudes for most of their workforce.
maybe where you are PeachNCream, but no one i know has any interest in a notebook, they have, and keep using desktops. i dont think, Joe average as you put it buys laptops as much as you say, but that could also be just the region, area or city too.
I don't put a great deal of faith in hardware sales surveys, but what I have seen published over the last decade or so seems to indicate an overall, long-running trend away from desktop computers. They are a shrinking market. There's nothing wrong with them as they have their uses and benefits, but I am going to stick to it that new purchases have been leaning toward more portable and mobile computing solutions.
still, maybe where you are, and " what I have seen published over the last decade or so seems to indicate " well, for here, that seems to be the opposite :-) i guess... this is one of those, agree to disagree, things :-)
I ordered my 7700K in late Jan 2017, and the 8700K hit the market in October the same year....; your 'only 3 month' assertion is clearly in error somewhere....
they mean 3 months after Ryzen announcement, Intel had to response with Coffee Lake, which main selling point was more core, so that it won't lost the price and core war against AMD.
Outside of the embedded/IoT market where parts are expected to have at least a 5 year availability, why haven’t they deprecated these long ago? Why difference is there between a quad core Coffee Lake and quad core Kaby Lake beyond clocks, errata and security fixes? Neither of those are real reasons to keep the prior generation around. Intel could have had this capacity for a while now.
The other thing is that if Intel is EOL to make more room on the production lines, that implies that 14 no is going to be for awhile longer. My thought is that there will be a 14 nm Sunny Cove part for desktops.
The newsworthy thing about this story is that it's news at all. That's just how sluggish and boring Intel has somehow become. Discontinuing 14nm CPUs while other 14nm CPUs are still in production? It's like watching paint dry.
Oh so you don't want to sell a product that sells like crazy for years on end? Go ahead and start a business please and see how long that lasts for you. Absolutely ZERO reason to complain about 14nm for any reason.
" Oh so you don't want to sell a product that sells like crazy for years on end " i dont think thats what the person is implying, but when there replacements available, that are potentially better, why keep making the older products ?
it is news, but it is normal business cycle....those last order dates are typical forecast systems.
What is more real news is that Intel is warning the OEM channels right now that Xeon Skylake XCC so the high core count Gold and Platinum series are in short supply at least untill EOY and they recommend moving to Cascase Lake....
It means that Intel cant fab enough differentiation/generations AND those Cascade Lake are cheaper...(only faster by small margin) so less ASP, It hurts everywhere @intel. I would not hold any Intel stock, data will not be good for the next quarters compared to other years...
Its funny actually. Last time OEM were stating to move to AMD with the Intel Xeon shortage.... this time the message was more under the embrella by Intel marketing :)
What Kaby Lake (and Skylake) give me that Coffee Lake does not is that they work in mainboards with the first version of Socket-1151. And yes, CPUs do die (rarely): I had a Core i7-6700K that died.
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drexnx - Thursday, October 10, 2019 - link
why were they even still making these? especially the skylake stuff! they're on a different gen 14nm process!Duwelon - Thursday, October 10, 2019 - link
I might be mis-remember this, but I'm pretty sure they only stopped making 486's sometime after Pentium II's came out.ozzuneoj86 - Thursday, October 10, 2019 - link
Intel was still producing 486 processors until 2007.jimbo2779 - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
To be fair that is some time after the Pentium 2 came out.Samus - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
I mean they were still making Pentium's well into 2010's if you consider the Atom... :)But I agree it's ridiculous they are still going to produce 4-generation old parts into next year...you can't even get motherboards for these things anymore.
imaheadcase - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
You and others seem to forget they are making them..because they have customers for them. Just because you don't know the applications used for the CPU doesn't mean it doesn't have a market. Even motherboards don't have to actually be sold to consumers for these CPU, they could be custom in house boards for testing or something for specific applications.One could argue that lots of the CPUs from intel or amd shouldnt even be made anymore..but they are.
mrvco - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
I expect that there are contractual obligations involved... government, corporate, institutional or whatever.jabber - Saturday, October 12, 2019 - link
Yes apparently older lithography parts work better in space, less affected by radiation etc.Samus - Sunday, October 13, 2019 - link
I guess I should have emphasized the elephant in the room here: all of these old architectures don’t have silicon level fixes for spectre and meltdown. That’s why the new architecture parts are in such short supply because that’s all customers want. Intel has literally said this. They can’t make them fast enough.bananaforscale - Saturday, October 12, 2019 - link
Atom wasn't a Pentium, more like Pentium M which was a totally different architecture.Samus - Sunday, October 13, 2019 - link
The Atom shares literally 90% of its architecture with the Pentium IIIibnmadhi - Sunday, October 13, 2019 - link
In addition to what the other poster said Pentium M also shares like 90% of its architecture with Pentium III...peevee - Wednesday, October 16, 2019 - link
First Atoms were in-order parts, even Pentium Pro was out-of-order. Pentium M were OoO AFAIR.HStewart - Wednesday, October 16, 2019 - link
Actually in newer processors the Pentium's like G4600 or so listed about Pentium M actually have move closer to iSeries except for lower voltage. Architexture with at least 7 and 8 series not much different and I saw absolute no difference with new 10nm series except for power. It would be very interesting to see the performance. 10th series even has AVX-512HStewart - Wednesday, October 16, 2019 - link
No editing here what I meant the G4600 Pentiums are closer to Atom, But you mention Pentium M which you might be close - not to be confuse with Core - M which is close to I series.Korguz - Thursday, October 17, 2019 - link
come on hstewart... learn how to spell architecture correctly !!!!!!!! for some one who " claims " to know so much about computers and says they have had the jobs in that industry for 30 years.. and you cant even spell that word correctly ??????eastcoast_pete - Saturday, October 12, 2019 - link
If for no other reason, the 486 Dx was a lot less power hungry than the Pentium and Pentium II, and perfectly suitable for office use with the Windows versions before Win95. Also a lot cheaper.regsEx - Thursday, October 10, 2019 - link
Business. It's far easier and cheaper to maintain large park of devices when they all same.eek2121 - Thursday, October 10, 2019 - link
Because as the process matures and R&D is paid for, costs go down. That means they actually make the most money on their older chips, even with price cuts. AMD uses the same strategy.ilt24 - Thursday, October 10, 2019 - link
@drexnx ... "why were they even still making these?"They guarantee supply of the embedded version of their chips for 7 years which are the same die on the same process...so they need to keep production going to support the embedded version. WIth the non embedded version, they can do the EOL notice any time before the EOL of the embedded version, it could depend on demand or the lasiness of the person that formally does the EOL notice :-)
BedfordTim - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
The embedded versions are marked IoT in the table.IT departments also like to support kit as replacing someone's computer can be surprisingly expensive.
drexnx - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
it's not like processors wear out or go bad during a typical device lifecycle though.DanNeely - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
And as long as they have to keep making the base die for the guaranteed long availability models it costs them almost nothing to bin a few of the chips into other models for anyone who actually wants them. Mostly embedded customers with slightly faster product turnover rates I assume.PhilipJ - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
When making a product companies often make deals with manufacturers to keep certain parts in production, so that they can keep producing their own product for as long as possible without needing to refresh the design every couple of years.Those deals might have ran out by now, which is why they're now marked as EOL.
damianrobertjones - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
I think they continued selling them, for awhile, because it enabled people to post using capitals at the start of sentences. I think they've given up. :)Dragonstongue - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
ROFLlolz
drexnx - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
I had to conserve 'em so Dragonstongue could randomly capitalize entire words in his unintelligible screed.Dragonstongue - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
if YOU were not aware, just because Intel has a "higher 14nm version" does NOT auto mean better performance...there ARE + / - one generation to the next....Intel has been busting their butt (as well as their massive bank accounts etc) JUST to stay "relevant" (competing with others using "near same" die size, transistor size, gate pitch all that fancy stuff.to my Knowledge, really the only "new chips" Intel has release in past few years that are beasts (chew power to try and prove how beastly) 9900 (various models)
beyond such....2000 got replaced by 3000 (not really worth at all) 4000 (some were better, not all) 5000/6000 (these were pretty much the "turn point" "overall" i.e go from max performance with an eye on power use to max power use reduction WHILE keeping performance up, 7000 mostly increase over 6000, 8000 far as I am aware, they "back peddle" performance to gain in other ways, then there is 9000 generation (one they are shipping currently)
the 9600 mehh 6-7-8000 had direct compete with bt overall, 9000 is the "new" balance point for Intel in regards that they can make a lean chip, or drive it to mach10 level (use copious power produce lots of heat, not even Intel can go beyond physics limitations)
IMO they likely ONLY doing this because they see is maybe that much more $$$$ for THEM to keep producing old (likely pricey) tooling for a few "ok sellers" the rest have been replaced for years effectively
there is also the other side that Intel has NOT really highlighted as of late
SECURITY
maybe they also getting rid of the "old insecure" to maybe try to get a full top to bottom as secure as can be designs............
Diji1 - Monday, October 14, 2019 - link
>8000 far as I am aware, they "back peddle" performance to gain in other waysYou don't seem to be aware that they added more cores and threads to most of the 8000 series ...
Kastriot - Saturday, October 12, 2019 - link
Because they are greedy bastards?bhtooefr - Sunday, October 13, 2019 - link
AFAIK, the answer basically boils down to Windows 7.Windows 7 won't run on anything newer than Skylake (but it will run on a 200-series platform even with a Skylake processor). So, you need Skylakes for that.
And, if you're still producing 200-series platforms, have Kaby Lakes around for those using Win10 on those platforms, so only the CPU has to be different between Win7 and Win10 deployments?
RavenRampkin - Sunday, October 13, 2019 - link
iirc AMD is still making FXes too, if I'm not mistakenjgraham11 - Thursday, October 10, 2019 - link
Remember when Intel released another Quad Core as their mainstream high-end processor, then AMD came out with Ryzen, a processor that had double the cores and it forced them to announce 8th Gen only 3 months after starting to sell this generation... Competition is a good thing otherwise we would still be stuck at 4 hyper-threaded cores for the high-end.eek2121 - Thursday, October 10, 2019 - link
This has nothing to do with competition. This is about freeing up node space for future 14nm parts, which in turn allows them to ramp up 10nm.bananaforscale - Saturday, October 12, 2019 - link
And 10nm has nothing to do with competition? :PPeachNCream - Thursday, October 10, 2019 - link
It is interesting to watch Intel scramble to respond to AMD, but I don't think killing off desktop Kaby Lake is a result of any specific AMD activities. Desktop sales are sluggish at best to begin with. A few workstations in limited roles in businesses are being purchased and there are the low-volume gaming boxes out there, but the reality is that Joe Average buys a laptop (or just uses a mobile phone) and companies and governments issue out bland Probooks and Latitudes for most of their workforce.Qasar - Thursday, October 10, 2019 - link
maybe where you are PeachNCream, but no one i know has any interest in a notebook, they have, and keep using desktops. i dont think, Joe average as you put it buys laptops as much as you say, but that could also be just the region, area or city too.PeachNCream - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
I don't put a great deal of faith in hardware sales surveys, but what I have seen published over the last decade or so seems to indicate an overall, long-running trend away from desktop computers. They are a shrinking market. There's nothing wrong with them as they have their uses and benefits, but I am going to stick to it that new purchases have been leaning toward more portable and mobile computing solutions.Qasar - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
still, maybe where you are, and " what I have seen published over the last decade or so seems to indicate " well, for here, that seems to be the opposite :-) i guess... this is one of those, agree to disagree, things :-)Diji1 - Monday, October 14, 2019 - link
The reason Intel was not that concerned about Ryzen is that desktop market is relatively low margin compared to mobile and server.They recently shit themselves when it became apparent that Ryzen is a threat to their share of the server market.
MDD1963 - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
I ordered my 7700K in late Jan 2017, and the 8700K hit the market in October the same year....; your 'only 3 month' assertion is clearly in error somewhere....MrSpadge - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
He said "announced 3 months later".Fulljack - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
they mean 3 months after Ryzen announcement, Intel had to response with Coffee Lake, which main selling point was more core, so that it won't lost the price and core war against AMD.Kevin G - Thursday, October 10, 2019 - link
Outside of the embedded/IoT market where parts are expected to have at least a 5 year availability, why haven’t they deprecated these long ago? Why difference is there between a quad core Coffee Lake and quad core Kaby Lake beyond clocks, errata and security fixes? Neither of those are real reasons to keep the prior generation around. Intel could have had this capacity for a while now.The other thing is that if Intel is EOL to make more room on the production lines, that implies that 14 no is going to be for awhile longer. My thought is that there will be a 14 nm Sunny Cove part for desktops.
drexnx - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
exactly, CFL is categorically superior to KBL in every way, why make any KBL chips at all? (outside of embedded commitments)especially in a capacity constrained situation, the higher performance will (roughly) equate to a higher ASP which means more margin and a higher ROI
eva02langley - Thursday, October 10, 2019 - link
So they finally found someway to get more production after milking those to the last drop?crashtech - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
The newsworthy thing about this story is that it's news at all. That's just how sluggish and boring Intel has somehow become. Discontinuing 14nm CPUs while other 14nm CPUs are still in production? It's like watching paint dry.Alistair - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
exactlyimaheadcase - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
Oh so you don't want to sell a product that sells like crazy for years on end? Go ahead and start a business please and see how long that lasts for you. Absolutely ZERO reason to complain about 14nm for any reason.Korguz - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
" Oh so you don't want to sell a product that sells like crazy for years on end " i dont think thats what the person is implying, but when there replacements available, that are potentially better, why keep making the older products ?duploxxx - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
it is news, but it is normal business cycle....those last order dates are typical forecast systems.What is more real news is that Intel is warning the OEM channels right now that Xeon Skylake XCC so the high core count Gold and Platinum series are in short supply at least untill EOY and they recommend moving to Cascase Lake....
It means that Intel cant fab enough differentiation/generations AND those Cascade Lake are cheaper...(only faster by small margin) so less ASP, It hurts everywhere @intel. I would not hold any Intel stock, data will not be good for the next quarters compared to other years...
Its funny actually. Last time OEM were stating to move to AMD with the Intel Xeon shortage.... this time the message was more under the embrella by Intel marketing :)
peevee - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
They plan to ship ancient stuff like Core i5-6500 for a year more... why Intel, why?Kvaern1 - Saturday, October 12, 2019 - link
It's pretty simple really. Either there is a demand or Intel is contractual obligated to keep them available.AntonErtl - Friday, October 11, 2019 - link
What Kaby Lake (and Skylake) give me that Coffee Lake does not is that they work in mainboards with the first version of Socket-1151. And yes, CPUs do die (rarely): I had a Core i7-6700K that died.Ehtanbentley - Wednesday, March 23, 2022 - link
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