It could with a lot more aggressive throttling or a dedicated chip. None of which Apple would reasonably want to do.
On the other hand I never thought the day will come when AT's front page had 2 reviews for OP's $1000 phone and Apple's $400 phone... The SE is a flagship killer I guess. Will probably replace my OP5 eventually.
Rendering pixels is not the only thing the SoC is expected to do. There's also the CPU side. And if you run into that kind of workload that stresses any other part of the SoC there's not much room for dissipating the heat without also making it uncomfortable or even dangerous (heating up the battery). So at best they'd really throttle it a lot wasting much of that horsepower. And building a dedicated SoC makes little sense for this kind of phone.
The biggest battery drainer is and always will be the screen. The GPU is rendering at barely over 720p and its only 4.7". This thing will have insane battery life.
We were talking about "power and thermal headroom" (quote) *in an iPhone 5 sized phone*, not the screen. The screen may be a big power draw (although not so much in a 4", lowish res version) but it's nothing to what a SoC draws at full power and the heat the SoC puts out. Having a high performance SoC like the A13 working at full power with very little room or metal to dissipate the heat is certainly bad. Which means either the SoC will spend most of its time throttled or it will cook everything around it, battery and hands included.
Hence an iPhone5 sized chassis doesn't make sense unless you pair it with a lower end SoC, something I'm sure Apple doesn't want.
Unless something has gone horribly wrong the SoC will be massive overkill for all but the most extreme gaming. Even a cheapo Mediatec Soc can handle web browsing, email and normal gaming perfectly adequately, and iPhone apps should run perfectly adequately on older iPhones with less efficient SoCs.
Don't take me wrong - it is quite possible, that I will buy one (or get one as a company phone), but how is this phone a "flagship killer"? Compared to any modern high-end phone it is hopelessly underspecced with only single bright spot - the chipset (and perhaps wireless charging).
@qap, read it in the context of my whole statement. It's a flagship killer the same way the old OnePluses were. Remember when OnePlus was touting this motto? Back when they sold phones that had close to top performance at half the price of a flagship? Well today OP sells $1000 phones while this $400 phone offers similar performance (look at A13 vs. 865) while pretty much guaranteeing 5 years of support. The update schedule on my OP5 is erratic at best, I'm only getting about half of the released Android patches, and the phone is not even 3 years old.
The dim spot on this phone is that it gives you no bragging rights which is what tells most other flagships apart :). Otherwise it covers 100% of the use cases for 95% of users.
It's cheap because they mostly recycled the iPhone 8. An edge to edge screen + FaceID would have turned it into an XR more or less, at the same $600. This is great as a company phone since it offers a direct continuation to the long-life iPhone 8, a good management framework, consistent experience, and (for me, at least) a shockingly low price.
I'll reiterate what I wrote earlier: if 3-4 years ago someone had told me that today I'll see the front page of AT with one article on the new $1000 OnePlus and the new (and perfectly decent) $400 iPhone I would would have said it must be a joke.
Yeah, would love that, too, but lowered my hopes many years ago. However this is an excellent device, top notch CPU, GPU, communication and display, acceptable formfactor and weight at an unbeatable price. Plus none of that excessive camera rubbish or Face ID rubbish. Heck, this might actually be the first new iPhone I'm buying myself (rather than the company phone I have or the second hand ones I own).
iPhone X are just a few mm bigger than iPhone 8, all less than a cm. it feels like huge because of the 5.8" screen but that's because full display on the front.
On the other hand while you gain the few mm of screen real estate with the X, you also get an older SoC which likely implies a couple of years less on future support (A11 vs. A13). That's besides the phone being used...
That "few" mm is not what my mom wants though. I can't blame her. The X is ultimately 5-10% larger and 25% heavier than the new SE. Dimensions aside the X is significantly slower, less efficient, and less capable.
It has a better higher resolution screen and a better camera system. Depends what you value I suppose. Going back to a single camera system would be painful for me.
Arguably, this single camera is better than that dual camera. The CMOS is slightly updated with support for a night mode which isn't available on the X, and it literally makes a day and night difference in low light, OTOH the smaller 2x module with a slower lens is usable in even fewer circumstances than the wide without night mode.
Yes, but I would think part of the reason its so cheap is because they didn't redesign it and also reused some manufacturing equipment. Personally I might consider this as my next phone because everything in the Android world is 6"+ with super tall aspect ratios (although I love my current phone with Samsung's One Hand Operation Plus gestures). I don't really care if my phone has a new or original external design.
The cheaper price has *a lo* to do with the old tooling but it's not the operation itself (which is pretty much identical) that makes the difference. Almost anything gets cheaper in time as the tooling is amortized and taken out of the cost. This way Apple still gets to extract value out of the old tooling that would otherwise have to be retired. And manufacturing a low cost phone on the new tooling would just take away capacity from the new high-end models. Chip manufacturers also repurpose old fabs, tooling, fabrication processes towards making chipsets, network chips, and all kinds of controllers that shouldn't take way capacity from their modern CPUs.
The other reason it's cheap is that except for the SoC they use previous generation parts and design in other places. The BOM is certainly lower given the use of cheaper single camera setup, no FaceID, smaller battery, etc. Which again means they don't have to take away any capacity from the new models.
For a 4.7 inch phone, the size of the phone is HUGE in today's standards. Maintaining the phone size, an "all screen phone" could have had a 5.8 inch screen. Maintaining the screen size, an "all screen phone" could have been MUCH smaller than that thing.
Using the screen diagonal as a proxy for size is highly misleading. The 4.7" iPhone screen has more screen area than either the G2 and S7. Hope you know how to calculate screen area given the diagonal. Good luck.
That's incorrect. All of these phones had 16:9 aspect ratios. At 16:9, 5.2" and 5.1" are both larger than 4.7". I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
These are definitely not normal sized phones. Some of these are quite old (the LG G2 is a 2013 phone!), and their size is far from representative of current phones. The Galaxy S10e is a particularly small phone compared to the rest of the current Samsung lineup, also far from normal. In short, you cherry picked some examples, which proves the opposite of what you tried to show.
It gives you somewhere to hold the thing and place to put your thumb, rather than delicately gripping it by the glass edges to avoid hitting the touch sensitive parts of the screen. I really hope this spawns a race of Android clones which aren't getting bigger and bigger, don't need silly camera arrays and don't cost over a grand. Whilst I suspect Apple may have used the same SoC to try and keep the number of SoC variants they have to develop for to a minimum (optimisation is kind of their thing compared to Android), it means you can get something which is small but still has the performance grunt, rather than having to go for a poverty pack processor combined with a small device. Also, the odds are that one camera will be half decent, rather than it being terrible like most budget phones.
I've never really needed a close-up camera. I do want wide angle and a normal camera, both very high specs. The single most important thing is low light performance and indoor pics, since outdoor is easy mode.
A massive lead in performance and years of software support after the sale for $399. Assuming it gets the usual five years of support, that's less than $99 a year.
If you want a small device with an edge to edge screen, that's supposed to be an option with the new flagships this fall, at least according to the usually accurate Ming Chi Kuo. It just won't be this cheap.
yup, my original SE is still alive, works relatively OK, and still getting all the security updates, running iOS 13.4.1 with having to invest my time into the ROMs and stuff of the old android.
For a 400 dollar phone to last (mostly software, most hardware last more than that) 5 years is an absolute steal.
Before you bring the pitchfork out, I have Note 2 and Note 4 prior the SE. And dual wielded android personal and iOS workphone for 2 years. The Note 2 is still alive and kicking... albeit for just TV remotes and taking notes with it's pen. Just no longer viable OS for a smartphone with banking and email attached to it.
"We live in a world where a brand new iPhone is undercutting every single phone OnePlus has released this year in price"
It would've been epic to see an iPhone 5 size AGAIN with top of the line specs. To me its an upgraded iPhone 8, but judging the price it is starting for and the beautiful 4.7 inch frame it comes with..I may have to preorder. Only thing worrying me is the RAM size and possibly battery life.
First spec I checked for in this announcement. I'll stick with my 2016 model SE, which managed to include a headphone jack despite its smaller dimensions.
But the design is so simmilar, I don’t think there is a bigger XR generation sensor in there. The camera bump on the XR is just way bigger than the one on the 8 and I don’t think they could just cram it in there without changing the bump design.
Also no 3D touch saves a lot of space. Just like SE was great, this should be great too on battery life. We will see about A13 clock and sustained perf. Deffinitelly a single sided MB on there unlike on the 11. But they report that battery life is unchanged so. We need a review from Anandtech.
And OMG the silver one has a black front. That is the favorite bit for me. If only the back was space gray too. Will need to replace that myself.
I don't really get the size comments. The iPhone 8 and this iPhone SE isn't really that much smaller than the iPhone 11 Pro. Yes the regular iPhone 11 and the Pro Max are much bigger but the 11 Pro is only ~4.5mm taller, ~4mm wider ~1mm thicker. I've got an iPhone 8 and iPhone XS sitting on my desk and I have to stack them on top of each other to notice the slight difference in size. Yes the screen is much bigger but that is due to the loss of the home button and the bezels and bot because the phone is significantly larger.
For myself its about reaching the top of the screen with my thumb while holding the phone in one hand. This is much easier to do on old phones with a 16:9 aspect ratio where the top of the screen is closer to the bottom of the phone. On an iPhone you need to do this all the time to click buttons, swipe down, manipulate browser tabs, type in the address bar etc. This is one of the reasons I use an Android where the basic menu buttons are at the bottom, I can install a browser with the address bar and tabs at the bottom, and I use Samsung's One Hand Operation gestures to swipe down from the side, rather than the top of the screen to access shortcuts, notifications, etc.
You're right. I have an iPhone 6 and the size is practically identical to an iPhone X/11 Pro. If it wasn't for the utterly insane price, I'd probably have considered upgrading from my iPhone 6.
Either way, some people are easily misled by big (or small) numbers; let them be happy, eh?
Kid.. old school is the Motorola DynaTAC, was the equivalent of $10K in 2020, and weighed a ton. The next gen of old school was the flip phones (Still used heavily in the Southern States - because most of them can't read)...
I do agree, they will sell millions - Apple Sheep are a loyal bunch, and now with the anti-suicide nets at the factory, no issues with productivity.
If you want to make a point about safe and healthy workplace conditions you could do so without using the least original insult on the internet. Although I suspect your goal was more to rile up Apple users than to raise awareness about something important.
IMO this could actually hurt apple long term because it is generally seen as a high end luxury brand and going for such a low price point will mean less top end sales and a less "exclusive" branch image. They will sell tons though, however i think they've miscalculated the specs. It would have made more sense to focus on the camera rather than a high end processor which is overkill on what is basically a 720p display
Seriously, this isn't even the first time Apple has done this exact spiel.
Nevermind the continued discounts and sales of their older models (still in production).
The idea of phone "exclusivity" is the most vainglorious thing about consumer electronics I simply do not understand. It's buying a commodity product (and also being sold as a commodity to others [or given away for free]).
I suppose the materialism of the 50's never left - people are still chasing the Jones, living the yuppie dream, broadcasting the "fresh"est experiences, etc. How a phone factors into this, who knows?
Nah, they are transitioning to services so you want as many devices as possible out there at all price points. And since they won’t be devoting design resources to refresh it for several more years it has to have a powerful processor at the beginning of its lifecycle. You need it to be able to run the services reasonably well for the next 3-4 years so people keep giving you those monthly subscription payments. It’s mean performance over the next 4 years will be just about right and below that of the flagships after this year.
Android phone user here. This is a great move by Apple, keeping more iOS users in their ecosystem, and giving the many iPhone users who clamored for a small-ish set what they wanted. I actually disagree with those who think this "cheaper" iPhone will dilute Apple's premium brand reputation. This keeps and gets users into iOS, especially those who (like me) think twice about spending over $ 1000 on a new phone. The other reason why I believe this is a very smart move is that it'll immediately make the next full-size iPhone even more desirable for current iPhone 11 owners, as one can now get an A13 device for less. So, all those who just have to have the newest and fastest have now another reason to buy the A14-based next iPhones very soon.
Agreed. I probably never would have bought an iPhone if it weren't for the SE being so reasonably priced, especially second-hand. I know quite a few people who still use the SE.
Not quite as aggressively priced in Canada. Converting back into USD, the Canadian model is roughly $425/$475/$575, which is basically just a $25 USD premium at each pricepoint.
I have a 64 GB iPhone with literally hundreds of Apps, music galore, and 10,000s of photos. No problem. iOS automatically off-loads stuff you aren’t using and reloads on demand.
Why do you have an issue? Doesn’t your phone automatically manage storage?
I am thinking it may be slightly downClocked as well, but it likely wont be any significant difference. Even at 100- 200Mhz It will still be ridiculously fast.
Since there are no reasonably sized Android smartphones in the market I'm thinking about picking this up. A good price, great SoC, and guaranteed support for years...
" This isn’t the newer generation sensor found on the iPhone 11 series as it lacks the full-sensor dual-pixel phase detection capability, so it’s likely the unit from the previous XS and iPhone 8 generation. "
The 8 was of a generation with the X, rather than the XS a year later, so I'm still not sure which generation sensor this is? I would assume the XR single camera + better processing through A13?
I'm still running an iPhone 6, because my primary mobile device is an iPad and according to Screen Time I only spend about 8 minutes a day on my phone (with Covid it's probably much less now). I was going to get whatever phone is introduced in fall, but now I'll get this instead.
Just a couple of weeks ago I was considering getting a Pocofone F1 like the one I had as a second phone 6 months ago while I was juggling with coexisting UK and US phone plans (I gave my F1 to my dad). They now run around £360 for 2 year old tech, which means it's 5 year old iPhone CPU tech, and other brands like OnePlus are more in the £600 range. I couldn't figure out who would want to buy off-brand knockoffs of the iPhone for so much. The question is only going to get more salient with the SE2.
The part about China being Dual Sim is wrong, China's model mention no Dual Sim, and it is likely to be single Nano Sim only due to China not supporting eSim.
For the price of a “flagship” phone you could by the iPhone SE, an Apple Watch, 2 years of AppleCare, and AirPods with money left over. That’s quite a package.
"12MP sensor with f/1.8 optics and OIS. This isn’t the newer generation sensor found on the iPhone 11 series as it lacks the full-sensor dual-pixel phase detection capability" -there's the deal breaker
wow! this looks like a really nice package, even as an android user. The Pixel 4a is going to have some tough competition as most likely it's going to be priced the same or close.
I’ve been one to criticize Apple for years due to their overcharging. They expect money for aesthetic qualities I don’t value. This SE has changed the equation, however. I could pay $400 for a Pixel 3a or 4a for 3 years of updates, equaling $130 per year. This SE, and the expected minimum 4 OS updates (possibly 5) puts its ownership between $80-100 per year, and with an outstanding CPU.
I’ve had Nokias, Motos, Samsungs. I’ve never owned an iPhone – my husband has had several. I own an iPad, because at $350 it became great value. 2020 is the year I will buy an iPhone. Value-wise, nothing else compares in value to this SE.
I know why don’t but I wish they made a Plus version. I actually like a bit of bezel and much prefer a home button/fingerprint scanner so I have stuck to an 8+, it’s not like it used to be where you “needed” to keep upgrading and they were subsidized.
Are the case & screen the same as a previous model (the iPhone 8?) so that the screen protectors & cases from that model will fit the new iPhone SE 2020?
While MSRP is $399, Walmart already has this phone on sale for preorder at $199 on Verizon or AT&T with no bill credits, contact, or new line required. Crazy good value. Bought one for my dad as he's still stuck on an ancient iPhone 5. Check sites like Slickdeals for info.
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OMGitsShan - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Was hoping this would be the smaller iPhone 5 size with edge to edge screen but with newer internals. Sometimes a smaller phone is much more handy.krazyfrog - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
That is no longer a realistic wish. The iPhone 5 body will be incapable of managing the power and thermal requirements of a 2020 flagship chipset.close - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
It could with a lot more aggressive throttling or a dedicated chip. None of which Apple would reasonably want to do.On the other hand I never thought the day will come when AT's front page had 2 reviews for OP's $1000 phone and Apple's $400 phone... The SE is a flagship killer I guess. Will probably replace my OP5 eventually.
ads295 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Given the paltry resolution of the display and the sheer power of the chipset, I don't think such power and thermal headroom is necessary.close - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Rendering pixels is not the only thing the SoC is expected to do. There's also the CPU side. And if you run into that kind of workload that stresses any other part of the SoC there's not much room for dissipating the heat without also making it uncomfortable or even dangerous (heating up the battery). So at best they'd really throttle it a lot wasting much of that horsepower. And building a dedicated SoC makes little sense for this kind of phone.quiksilvr - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
The biggest battery drainer is and always will be the screen. The GPU is rendering at barely over 720p and its only 4.7". This thing will have insane battery life.iphonebestgamephone - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Is it still the screen when you are running something that uses 100% cpu?close - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
We were talking about "power and thermal headroom" (quote) *in an iPhone 5 sized phone*, not the screen. The screen may be a big power draw (although not so much in a 4", lowish res version) but it's nothing to what a SoC draws at full power and the heat the SoC puts out. Having a high performance SoC like the A13 working at full power with very little room or metal to dissipate the heat is certainly bad. Which means either the SoC will spend most of its time throttled or it will cook everything around it, battery and hands included.Hence an iPhone5 sized chassis doesn't make sense unless you pair it with a lower end SoC, something I'm sure Apple doesn't want.
BedfordTim - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Unless something has gone horribly wrong the SoC will be massive overkill for all but the most extreme gaming. Even a cheapo Mediatec Soc can handle web browsing, email and normal gaming perfectly adequately, and iPhone apps should run perfectly adequately on older iPhones with less efficient SoCs.ads295 - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Apple will most likely underclock this SoC in this application.The battery size is the same as the iPhone 8 at 1821mAh, so...
qap - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Don't take me wrong - it is quite possible, that I will buy one (or get one as a company phone), but how is this phone a "flagship killer"? Compared to any modern high-end phone it is hopelessly underspecced with only single bright spot - the chipset (and perhaps wireless charging).BedfordTim - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
I would have preferred it to be thicker and have the missing telephoto and wide angle cameras. USB-C and microSD support would have made it perfect.close - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
@qap, read it in the context of my whole statement. It's a flagship killer the same way the old OnePluses were. Remember when OnePlus was touting this motto? Back when they sold phones that had close to top performance at half the price of a flagship? Well today OP sells $1000 phones while this $400 phone offers similar performance (look at A13 vs. 865) while pretty much guaranteeing 5 years of support. The update schedule on my OP5 is erratic at best, I'm only getting about half of the released Android patches, and the phone is not even 3 years old.The dim spot on this phone is that it gives you no bragging rights which is what tells most other flagships apart :). Otherwise it covers 100% of the use cases for 95% of users.
sorten - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
I was also hoping for the smaller format, edge/edge screen. It would have been the perfect front-pocket phone.At this larger size it's still a very impressive phone and a decent price, but not as interesting.
close - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
It's cheap because they mostly recycled the iPhone 8. An edge to edge screen + FaceID would have turned it into an XR more or less, at the same $600. This is great as a company phone since it offers a direct continuation to the long-life iPhone 8, a good management framework, consistent experience, and (for me, at least) a shockingly low price.I'll reiterate what I wrote earlier: if 3-4 years ago someone had told me that today I'll see the front page of AT with one article on the new $1000 OnePlus and the new (and perfectly decent) $400 iPhone I would would have said it must be a joke.
Daniel Egger - Friday, April 17, 2020 - link
Yeah, would love that, too, but lowered my hopes many years ago. However this is an excellent device, top notch CPU, GPU, communication and display, acceptable formfactor and weight at an unbeatable price. Plus none of that excessive camera rubbish or Face ID rubbish. Heck, this might actually be the first new iPhone I'm buying myself (rather than the company phone I have or the second hand ones I own).yeeeeman - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Coming from an Android user, this is impressive, minus the display.nathanddrews - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
I was looking for a used iphone X for my mom (around $400 for a quality one), but she doesn't like the giant phones. This is perfect for her.Fulljack - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
iPhone X are just a few mm bigger than iPhone 8, all less than a cm. it feels like huge because of the 5.8" screen but that's because full display on the front.close - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
On the other hand while you gain the few mm of screen real estate with the X, you also get an older SoC which likely implies a couple of years less on future support (A11 vs. A13). That's besides the phone being used...nathanddrews - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
That "few" mm is not what my mom wants though. I can't blame her. The X is ultimately 5-10% larger and 25% heavier than the new SE. Dimensions aside the X is significantly slower, less efficient, and less capable.Midwayman - Monday, April 20, 2020 - link
It has a better higher resolution screen and a better camera system. Depends what you value I suppose. Going back to a single camera system would be painful for me.s.yu - Monday, April 20, 2020 - link
Arguably, this single camera is better than that dual camera. The CMOS is slightly updated with support for a night mode which isn't available on the X, and it literally makes a day and night difference in low light, OTOH the smaller 2x module with a slower lens is usable in even fewer circumstances than the wide without night mode.5080 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Great price for an iPhone, but look at that tired design.SolarBear28 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Yes, but I would think part of the reason its so cheap is because they didn't redesign it and also reused some manufacturing equipment. Personally I might consider this as my next phone because everything in the Android world is 6"+ with super tall aspect ratios (although I love my current phone with Samsung's One Hand Operation Plus gestures). I don't really care if my phone has a new or original external design.mantikos - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
I assure you the cheaper price has nothing to do with using old tooling. What do you think the BOM is on a new flagship device?iphonebestgamephone - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
So operating the tools for making an iphone x costs the same as an 8?close - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
The cheaper price has *a lo* to do with the old tooling but it's not the operation itself (which is pretty much identical) that makes the difference. Almost anything gets cheaper in time as the tooling is amortized and taken out of the cost. This way Apple still gets to extract value out of the old tooling that would otherwise have to be retired. And manufacturing a low cost phone on the new tooling would just take away capacity from the new high-end models. Chip manufacturers also repurpose old fabs, tooling, fabrication processes towards making chipsets, network chips, and all kinds of controllers that shouldn't take way capacity from their modern CPUs.The other reason it's cheap is that except for the SoC they use previous generation parts and design in other places. The BOM is certainly lower given the use of cheaper single camera setup, no FaceID, smaller battery, etc. Which again means they don't have to take away any capacity from the new models.
zeeBomb - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
The design aged like fine wine if you ask me. And it being 4.7inches..i may sound like a fanboy, but it's perfect!heffeque - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
For a 4.7 inch phone, the size of the phone is HUGE in today's standards.Maintaining the phone size, an "all screen phone" could have had a 5.8 inch screen.
Maintaining the screen size, an "all screen phone" could have been MUCH smaller than that thing.
phoenix_rizzen - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
LG G2 is within a few mm in each dimension of this phone. G2 has a 5.2" 1080p screen.Samsung Galaxy S7 is within a few mm in each dimension of this phone, with a 5.1" 1440p screen.
Samsung Galaxy S10e is within a few mm in each dimension of this phone, with a 5.8" 1080p screen.
138.4 x 67.3 x 7.3 mm - <720p - SE (2020)
138.5 x 70.9 x 8.9 mm - 1080p - G2
142.4 x 69.6 x 7.9 mm - 1440p - S7
142.2 x 69.9 x 7.9 mm - 1080p - S10e
This isn't a "small phone", it's a tiny screen in a normal-sized phone (S7 even has a physical home button).
Alistair - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
It's smaller than all of those phones in every dimension, and is under 150 grams, very light weight. It is a small phone. You're way overthinking it.heffeque - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
No, it's not. Look, here are 2 extremely cheap phones that are smaller in size and still manage to have more inches of screen: https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=971...Don't tell me that Apple can't do it too.
PeterCollier - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Using the screen diagonal as a proxy for size is highly misleading. The 4.7" iPhone screen has more screen area than either the G2 and S7. Hope you know how to calculate screen area given the diagonal. Good luck.Maxpower2727 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
That's incorrect. All of these phones had 16:9 aspect ratios. At 16:9, 5.2" and 5.1" are both larger than 4.7". I'm not sure what you're getting at here.sonicmerlin - Friday, April 17, 2020 - link
Wow look at those radio bands. The competition especially at that price level can't even compare.flyingpants265 - Saturday, April 18, 2020 - link
No.ET - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
These are definitely not normal sized phones. Some of these are quite old (the LG G2 is a 2013 phone!), and their size is far from representative of current phones. The Galaxy S10e is a particularly small phone compared to the rest of the current Samsung lineup, also far from normal. In short, you cherry picked some examples, which proves the opposite of what you tried to show.philehidiot - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
It gives you somewhere to hold the thing and place to put your thumb, rather than delicately gripping it by the glass edges to avoid hitting the touch sensitive parts of the screen. I really hope this spawns a race of Android clones which aren't getting bigger and bigger, don't need silly camera arrays and don't cost over a grand. Whilst I suspect Apple may have used the same SoC to try and keep the number of SoC variants they have to develop for to a minimum (optimisation is kind of their thing compared to Android), it means you can get something which is small but still has the performance grunt, rather than having to go for a poverty pack processor combined with a small device. Also, the odds are that one camera will be half decent, rather than it being terrible like most budget phones.flyingpants265 - Saturday, April 18, 2020 - link
I've never really needed a close-up camera. I do want wide angle and a normal camera, both very high specs. The single most important thing is low light performance and indoor pics, since outdoor is easy mode.BillBear - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
A massive lead in performance and years of software support after the sale for $399. Assuming it gets the usual five years of support, that's less than $99 a year.If you want a small device with an edge to edge screen, that's supposed to be an option with the new flagships this fall, at least according to the usually accurate Ming Chi Kuo. It just won't be this cheap.
PEJUman - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
yup, my original SE is still alive, works relatively OK, and still getting all the security updates, running iOS 13.4.1 with having to invest my time into the ROMs and stuff of the old android.For a 400 dollar phone to last (mostly software, most hardware last more than that) 5 years is an absolute steal.
Before you bring the pitchfork out, I have Note 2 and Note 4 prior the SE. And dual wielded android personal and iOS workphone for 2 years. The Note 2 is still alive and kicking... albeit for just TV remotes and taking notes with it's pen. Just no longer viable OS for a smartphone with banking and email attached to it.
flyingpants265 - Saturday, April 18, 2020 - link
So crazy how they just up and removed TV remote functionality with no explanation.At least have a wifi IR blaster instead..
mkaibear - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Oh man they are going to sell millions of these.Including one to my wife who has been wanting a new small iPhone for about 4 years.
zipz0p - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Exactly.nfineon - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
ummm.. do you know this is exactly the same size, screen, battery, body as the iphone 8 that's been out for 3 years now?zeeBomb - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
I think MKBHD's tweet today said it best:"We live in a world where a brand new iPhone is undercutting every single phone OnePlus has released this year in price"
It would've been epic to see an iPhone 5 size AGAIN with top of the line specs. To me its an upgraded iPhone 8, but judging the price it is starting for and the beautiful 4.7 inch frame it comes with..I may have to preorder. Only thing worrying me is the RAM size and possibly battery life.
EliteRetard - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
No 3.5mm headphone jack...This is not a reincarnation, but a rotting dead zombie corpse.
lowlymarine - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
The only rotting dead corpse here is the horse you won't stop beating.Alistair - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
hahahaha, shouldn't have laughed so much, but seriously, I want USB-C or a headphone jack so bad, but I'll take itRSAUser - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
iPhone 8 also doesn't have a headphone jack.Fulljack - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
but iPhone 6s does, which has nearly the same chassis.IBM760XL - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
First spec I checked for in this announcement. I'll stick with my 2016 model SE, which managed to include a headphone jack despite its smaller dimensions.s.yu - Monday, April 20, 2020 - link
Which is why S10e is a genuine alternative.GC2:CS - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Well well. Would buy three for an 11Pro.But the design is so simmilar, I don’t think there is a bigger XR generation sensor in there. The camera bump on the XR is just way bigger than the one on the 8 and I don’t think they could just cram it in there without changing the bump design.
Also no 3D touch saves a lot of space. Just like SE was great, this should be great too on battery life.
We will see about A13 clock and sustained perf. Deffinitelly a single sided MB on there unlike on the 11. But they report that battery life is unchanged so. We need a review from Anandtech.
And OMG the silver one has a black front. That is the favorite bit for me. If only the back was space gray too. Will need to replace that myself.
kpb321 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
I don't really get the size comments. The iPhone 8 and this iPhone SE isn't really that much smaller than the iPhone 11 Pro. Yes the regular iPhone 11 and the Pro Max are much bigger but the 11 Pro is only ~4.5mm taller, ~4mm wider ~1mm thicker. I've got an iPhone 8 and iPhone XS sitting on my desk and I have to stack them on top of each other to notice the slight difference in size. Yes the screen is much bigger but that is due to the loss of the home button and the bezels and bot because the phone is significantly larger.SolarBear28 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
For myself its about reaching the top of the screen with my thumb while holding the phone in one hand. This is much easier to do on old phones with a 16:9 aspect ratio where the top of the screen is closer to the bottom of the phone. On an iPhone you need to do this all the time to click buttons, swipe down, manipulate browser tabs, type in the address bar etc. This is one of the reasons I use an Android where the basic menu buttons are at the bottom, I can install a browser with the address bar and tabs at the bottom, and I use Samsung's One Hand Operation gestures to swipe down from the side, rather than the top of the screen to access shortcuts, notifications, etc.Tomatotech - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
I think you’re talking about Safari. I use Chrome on my iPhone and never need to touch the top bar.Bottom bar has shortcuts for changing tab, slide to change tab, hot button for address bar, hamburger menu etc. No need to reach for top bar.
jeremyshaw - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
You're right. I have an iPhone 6 and the size is practically identical to an iPhone X/11 Pro. If it wasn't for the utterly insane price, I'd probably have considered upgrading from my iPhone 6.Either way, some people are easily misled by big (or small) numbers; let them be happy, eh?
hoodlum90 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Too bad the SE camera doesn't have night sight and deep fusion.rmullns08 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
They've gotta do something to really separate the 11s from the SE.zer0hour - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
A13 at that price point is pretty amazing, despite the old school screen and design. It's gonna sell millions and millions, no doubt.Deicidium369 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Kid.. old school is the Motorola DynaTAC, was the equivalent of $10K in 2020, and weighed a ton. The next gen of old school was the flip phones (Still used heavily in the Southern States - because most of them can't read)...I do agree, they will sell millions - Apple Sheep are a loyal bunch, and now with the anti-suicide nets at the factory, no issues with productivity.
SolarBear28 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
If you want to make a point about safe and healthy workplace conditions you could do so without using the least original insult on the internet. Although I suspect your goal was more to rile up Apple users than to raise awareness about something important.tipoo - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Wonder if we should tell this one almost all consumer phones and laptops are built in one of two factories, Apple or not.crimson117 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Typo: "yet alone iPhones" should be "let alone iPhones"adriaaaaan - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
IMO this could actually hurt apple long term because it is generally seen as a high end luxury brand and going for such a low price point will mean less top end sales and a less "exclusive" branch image. They will sell tons though, however i think they've miscalculated the specs. It would have made more sense to focus on the camera rather than a high end processor which is overkill on what is basically a 720p displayads295 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Considering just how many iPhones are sold I find it kinda funny that the brand is perceived to be "exclusive". So many people have one!jeremyshaw - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Seriously, this isn't even the first time Apple has done this exact spiel.Nevermind the continued discounts and sales of their older models (still in production).
The idea of phone "exclusivity" is the most vainglorious thing about consumer electronics I simply do not understand. It's buying a commodity product (and also being sold as a commodity to others [or given away for free]).
I suppose the materialism of the 50's never left - people are still chasing the Jones, living the yuppie dream, broadcasting the "fresh"est experiences, etc. How a phone factors into this, who knows?
flgt - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Nah, they are transitioning to services so you want as many devices as possible out there at all price points. And since they won’t be devoting design resources to refresh it for several more years it has to have a powerful processor at the beginning of its lifecycle. You need it to be able to run the services reasonably well for the next 3-4 years so people keep giving you those monthly subscription payments. It’s mean performance over the next 4 years will be just about right and below that of the flagships after this year.Zerrohero - Friday, April 17, 2020 - link
Apple is not “transitioning into services” because “nobody buys iPhones anymore” (record revenues in the xmas quarter, driven by ...iPhone).They are still very much a hardware company and continue to be so. Services are just additional revenue, part of the whole platform thing.
eastcoast_pete - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Android phone user here. This is a great move by Apple, keeping more iOS users in their ecosystem, and giving the many iPhone users who clamored for a small-ish set what they wanted. I actually disagree with those who think this "cheaper" iPhone will dilute Apple's premium brand reputation. This keeps and gets users into iOS, especially those who (like me) think twice about spending over $ 1000 on a new phone. The other reason why I believe this is a very smart move is that it'll immediately make the next full-size iPhone even more desirable for current iPhone 11 owners, as one can now get an A13 device for less. So, all those who just have to have the newest and fastest have now another reason to buy the A14-based next iPhones very soon.nicolaim - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
I agree.IBM760XL - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Agreed. I probably never would have bought an iPhone if it weren't for the SE being so reasonably priced, especially second-hand. I know quite a few people who still use the SE.iamlilysdad - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Does it have Night Mode? Lack of mention doesn't mean it isn't there.hoodlum90 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Comparison of specs on Apple site shows NO for the Night modeGuspaz - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Not quite as aggressively priced in Canada. Converting back into USD, the Canadian model is roughly $425/$475/$575, which is basically just a $25 USD premium at each pricepoint.nicolaim - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Still that proprietary Lightning port instead of USB-C!shabby - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Iphone 11 Pro 64gb = $999IPhone SE 64gb = $399
What's wrong with this picture? No high end phone should come with 64gb...
hlovatt - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
I have a 64 GB iPhone with literally hundreds of Apps, music galore, and 10,000s of photos. No problem. iOS automatically off-loads stuff you aren’t using and reloads on demand.Why do you have an issue? Doesn’t your phone automatically manage storage?
shabby - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Start taking video's, i have 140gb of them.Maxpower2727 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
"64gb is enough for me; therefore, 64gb is enough for anyone."haukionkannel - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Well there Also Are 256gb models. So to someone the 64Gb is just fine, but those who need more can buy bigger version.iphonebestgamephone - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Those 10,000 s of photos are on the cloud right? And the apps dont include big games? Offloading and reloading from what?hlovatt - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Sure they are in the cloud at full res and on the phone at reduced res. Once you do anything like edit they are downloaded at full res.The point I’m making is that 64 GB is fine with iOS for the vast majority of people because it manages the storage well and automatically.
iphonebestgamephone - Friday, April 17, 2020 - link
You mean fine with ios or android for whoever has fast internet/wifi everywhere.Jon Tseng - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Any formal confirmation of the clocks on that A13? Saw some commentary a while back it might be downclocked dunno..If not then in terms of gaming this will be the fastest iPhone in history given the lower resolution of the 4.7" panel..
ksec - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
I am thinking it may be slightly downClocked as well, but it likely wont be any significant difference. Even at 100- 200Mhz It will still be ridiculously fast.bleh0 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
Since there are no reasonably sized Android smartphones in the market I'm thinking about picking this up. A good price, great SoC, and guaranteed support for years...This is going to be a hit.
widescreen - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
The Galaxy s10e is only 7% larger but has a 38% bigger screen. Here in Europe the S10e is cheaper than the SE.Zerrohero - Friday, April 17, 2020 - link
S10e is not bad, but it gets perhaps couple of years of support,Plus you have to deal with the clunky Samsung software and unremovable crap on the phone. Does it still come with uninstallable Facebook preinstalled?
tipoo - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
" This isn’t the newer generation sensor found on the iPhone 11 series as it lacks the full-sensor dual-pixel phase detection capability, so it’s likely the unit from the previous XS and iPhone 8 generation. "The 8 was of a generation with the X, rather than the XS a year later, so I'm still not sure which generation sensor this is? I would assume the XR single camera + better processing through A13?
fazalmajid - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
I'm still running an iPhone 6, because my primary mobile device is an iPad and according to Screen Time I only spend about 8 minutes a day on my phone (with Covid it's probably much less now). I was going to get whatever phone is introduced in fall, but now I'll get this instead.Just a couple of weeks ago I was considering getting a Pocofone F1 like the one I had as a second phone 6 months ago while I was juggling with coexisting UK and US phone plans (I gave my F1 to my dad). They now run around £360 for 2 year old tech, which means it's 5 year old iPhone CPU tech, and other brands like OnePlus are more in the £600 range. I couldn't figure out who would want to buy off-brand knockoffs of the iPhone for so much. The question is only going to get more salient with the SE2.
ksec - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
The part about China being Dual Sim is wrong, China's model mention no Dual Sim, and it is likely to be single Nano Sim only due to China not supporting eSim.Isaacc7 - Wednesday, April 15, 2020 - link
For the price of a “flagship” phone you could by the iPhone SE, an Apple Watch, 2 years of AppleCare, and AirPods with money left over. That’s quite a package.x_marx - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
Costs $555 here in India.Hoping for a price cut!
LMonty - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
$520 in the Philippines. We're screwed.brucethemoose - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
I like how Apple doesn't segment phones by SoC within the same gen. No need to waste hundreds of millions taping out a few variations.haukionkannel - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
True. Apple saves money in that!isthisavailable - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
"12MP sensor with f/1.8 optics and OIS. This isn’t the newer generation sensor found on the iPhone 11 series as it lacks the full-sensor dual-pixel phase detection capability"-there's the deal breaker
iphonebestgamephone - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
What deal does it break for 400$?tipoo - Friday, April 17, 2020 - link
I suspect the results will punch closer to the 11 than the XR. 2nd gen smart HDR was the true big gain with the 11.NICOXIS - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
wow! this looks like a really nice package, even as an android user. The Pixel 4a is going to have some tough competition as most likely it's going to be priced the same or close.euskalzabe - Thursday, April 16, 2020 - link
I’ve been one to criticize Apple for years due to their overcharging. They expect money for aesthetic qualities I don’t value. This SE has changed the equation, however. I could pay $400 for a Pixel 3a or 4a for 3 years of updates, equaling $130 per year. This SE, and the expected minimum 4 OS updates (possibly 5) puts its ownership between $80-100 per year, and with an outstanding CPU.I’ve had Nokias, Motos, Samsungs. I’ve never owned an iPhone – my husband has had several. I own an iPad, because at $350 it became great value. 2020 is the year I will buy an iPhone. Value-wise, nothing else compares in value to this SE.
steepedrostee - Sunday, April 19, 2020 - link
i have top iphone as main phone, but use a mid/low android as backup .. this will be my next backup phone -- excited!Icehawk - Friday, April 17, 2020 - link
I know why don’t but I wish they made a Plus version. I actually like a bit of bezel and much prefer a home button/fingerprint scanner so I have stuck to an 8+, it’s not like it used to be where you “needed” to keep upgrading and they were subsidized.wpcoe - Friday, April 17, 2020 - link
Are the case & screen the same as a previous model (the iPhone 8?) so that the screen protectors & cases from that model will fit the new iPhone SE 2020?flyingpants265 - Saturday, April 18, 2020 - link
Ah, a $100 phone for $399.ThreeDee912 - Monday, April 20, 2020 - link
While MSRP is $399, Walmart already has this phone on sale for preorder at $199 on Verizon or AT&T with no bill credits, contact, or new line required. Crazy good value. Bought one for my dad as he's still stuck on an ancient iPhone 5. Check sites like Slickdeals for info.