I wish they would. It’s totally bewildering and extremely disjointed for their lineup, especially when pushing the ‘Pro’ name and when their other ‘Pro products’ are USB C.
It’s also pretty ridiculous how the new iPad Air (announced before) which is going to be a media consumption device doesn’t get a 3.5mm socket.
That mm wave 5G is, yes, fast, but largely a bad joke as long as carriers are throttling speed after whatever allotment is used up. Plus, mm wavelength means line-of-sight only, and that's not the case most of the time. Verizon can barely get mm 5G working in large, open stadiums, so never mind built-up areas like cities. So, mm 5G won't be a consideration for my next phone purchase. I am curious how much beam-forming and MiMo in sub-6 GHz 5G add versus current 4G LTE, and would like to see a deep-ish dive on that. Lastly, will be interesting to learn who makes the i12 5 G modem. Qualcomm?
It's literally an enlarged iPhone 4 😲. Not very pretty.
"It's pretty unusual to see Apple compare to other Android SoC counterparts" -- as Anandtech pointed out, the generational improvement here is slight, so much so they can't use it in their marketing. That run of performance improvements had to come to an end eventually! (Also suspect a lot of their design team will have been dedicated to ARM for Mac)
There's more to a camera than just resolution. There are also dynamic range and noise characteristics, as well as color rendering. My 12 year old, 12 megapixel Nikon D700 still takes fantastic photos, and I take it over any modern phone camera. The pictures are still higher resolution than any display I own, and unless you've got a 5k or higher display, they're higher resolution than any display you've got too.
Re "back to the old design" - sure, and that's good, since having actual corners instead of curves makes the phone grippier and less liable to jump out of my hand.
Good stuff. Biggest one is 5.4" phone with flagship SOC and AMOLED screen. All phones with at least 1080p resolution and AMOLED screen. 12 pro max with 1/1.7" sensor. You can only do so much with smaller sensor. Unfortunate they could not use the same primary sensor on all the phones. starting price of 699. that is the model which is gonna sell like hot cakes. Even the "pro" models have not seen price increase despite base model going up to 128GB storage.
bad Could not even put at least 90 hz screen in 2020. I wish they used Persicope zoom in at least 12 pro max(4x zoom is not real optical zoom).
Still being 1st 5G phones from IOS side, I expect this to outsell 11 series despite being in COVID world with so many folks losing their jobs. I expect 699 phone to sell like hot cakes.
It is actually 4 or 5 optical zoom. Comparing to Ultra Wide which is: 0.5x to 2x. 2 divded by 0.5 is 4 optical zoom. I am going to sell my S20 5G and get 12 Pro Max which has everything I need and the best camera out there. At price of $1099 it's a hell of device.
The cool thing is they shipped the Pro models 120hz capable. So if the issue that stopped it from being a launch feature is software side, the 120hz could be activated later. At least that was the last thing I read.
As an 10 year Android user I have never wanted an iPhone (Pro Max) than this year. I am selling my S20+ 5G and getting 12 Pro Max with the biggest amount of storage I can afford (256 or 512GB).
It's all about cameras (now every single camera module has it's own Night Mode, and Pro Max has 12MP with 1/1.7 sensor and F1.6 aperture that will outclass competition in every aspect), the fastest and the same SoC in every iPhone and region, great Car Play (vs garbage Android Auto), excellent battery life (iPhone 11 Pro was beating my S20+ 5G by 2-3 hours of SoT), 5G (so it will be future proof), finally better display-to-body ratio and Face ID which works flawlessly. I was using an iPhone 11 Pro for a while and I loved Face ID. 6GB of RAM which will sufficient for long time (I don't play games). And video recording quality is in another universe comparing to my S20+ 5G device. I will couple iPhone 12 Pro Max with oldie-but-goldie S10 which is still a stellar smartphone that will serve as my storage & business machine for my 512 MicroSD card. ;)
I cannot count the number of times Apple has introduced a feature on just the highest end model, and that feature then proceeded to migrate to all of their lineup over the next few years.
The $699 iPhone Mini is a smart competitive move by Apple. I don't think any similarly priced 5G phone that can only offer mid-range specs (think Pixel 5) will be able to attract buyers with this manifestly superior iPhone vying for the patronage customers in that market segment. Mid-range phones from Google, Oppo and Xiaomi might still do alright if those manufacturers find a way of shaving $150 or more off the price of their phones. I am going to be watching with interest as the other smartphones manufacturers begin to respond to this.
Really, you hate iOS that much? Other than much better notifications on android, and wildly popular in the states iMessage on the iPhone, they are nearly clones of each other (at least on the interface side of things).
Actually, as of iOS 14, I’m not that fussed by the software. Pixels are more locked down than ever. However, I really like fingerprint for ID and (esp in 2020) wouldn’t want to be stuck with typing a PIN every time FaceID fails. Oh and imagine how nice these 12s would look without the notch....
5.4" 135g phone getting 5G... BOTH sub6 and mmWave is crazy impressive.
Other mmWave devices are literally twice as big. Possibly an exclusivity on next gen 5nm Qualcomm modem is the reason ?
mini display is actually tiny bit narrower than legacy 4.7" phones. I view that as a negative. Pro iPhones getting larger. Despite going significally thinner (LIKE a lot) they ARE heavier (why ???)!
Camera upgrades seem less impressive than I expected.... Telephoto and ultra-wide are generally the same (new sensors for faster captures). Wide has optics upgrade. Larger sensor and stronger zoom on the MAX only. HATE that. Software enhancements seem great though. WHY there is no night mode on the telephoto ???
Same displays, same glass bezzel size. The bezel was reduced by cutting the metal curvature out. A lot of work lies ahead (Max at 87.4% screen coverage +3% compared to 11 Max). Ceramic shield is a must ;)
No info on A14 perf. They only said it is 50% better than any smartphone (excluding A13 ?). We already know... A13 smokes dragons too. ISP and neural engine probably went sky high for what they have shown.
Battery life the same or slightly less. That is OK for me.
I personally expected more perf and camera upgrades, but only because those are things i would like to upgrade to. All was eaten up by some mighty impressive 5G addition from both engineering and cost standpoint. A14 is "hindered" by focus on ML and ISP. Possibly by less than stellar performance of 5nm and/or work in the larger Mac SoC.
Really like the thinner design. Just give Max cameras to the mini iPhone and i would pay 3000 for that... not happening sadly.
Higher refresh is nice, especially on Android phones that don't always scroll very smoothly. I think its far from a deal killer. Would of been a lot more useful on the iPad Air with its strong pen support.
In a void it isn’t a deal killer. However, these phones bring very little to the table compared to previous generations. The lower price points are even more fleshed out and close to feature parity. The only thing really pro about the pro models are the price.
"The only thing really pro about the pro models are the price." No, not really. You are getting some upgrades, such as stainless steel frame, much faster focusing and improved stabilization on video and stills, full 4K/60P with HDR, low light mode on all 3 sensors, etc.
Those are all secondary luxury nice-to-haves. They aren’t big things like OLED displays, 5G, better SoCs, magsafe chargers, or high refresh rate displays.
Only in US. In Europe a S20 is half the price of the iPhone 12 Pro so they're not even competing. The iPhone may even be a better phone, but it costs 1179 Euro for the base Pro model (1385 usd) while the S20 is around the 600 mark.
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ahamling27 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
"and to Pro models" I think you meant two.Batmeat - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Was going to say the same thing.Or tue, tew, or too, but definitely not “to”.
valinor89 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Is hoping for USB-C too much?valinor89 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Oops wanted to make a new comment, sorry.shabby - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Don't you wish there was an edit button? Are we back in the twentieth century here?valinor89 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Too true. If wishes were fishes this site would be the biggest fish market in the world.valinor89 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Is hoping for USB-C too much?If they are not even including a cable nowadays, they might as well go USB-C
Chaitanya - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
With this manufacturer yes.plewis00 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
I wish they would. It’s totally bewildering and extremely disjointed for their lineup, especially when pushing the ‘Pro’ name and when their other ‘Pro products’ are USB C.It’s also pretty ridiculous how the new iPad Air (announced before) which is going to be a media consumption device doesn’t get a 3.5mm socket.
patel21 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Would you be forced to buy the Airpods if they kept 3.5 jack ? duh!I would have liked if they just switched to USB-C for the Pro lineup
eastcoast_pete - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
That mm wave 5G is, yes, fast, but largely a bad joke as long as carriers are throttling speed after whatever allotment is used up. Plus, mm wavelength means line-of-sight only, and that's not the case most of the time. Verizon can barely get mm 5G working in large, open stadiums, so never mind built-up areas like cities. So, mm 5G won't be a consideration for my next phone purchase. I am curious how much beam-forming and MiMo in sub-6 GHz 5G add versus current 4G LTE, and would like to see a deep-ish dive on that.Lastly, will be interesting to learn who makes the i12 5 G modem. Qualcomm?
Random username - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
A joke is that it's so difficult and expensive to get unlimited data in USAMeteor2 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
It's literally an enlarged iPhone 4 😲. Not very pretty."It's pretty unusual to see Apple compare to other Android SoC counterparts" -- as Anandtech pointed out, the generational improvement here is slight, so much so they can't use it in their marketing. That run of performance improvements had to come to an end eventually! (Also suspect a lot of their design team will have been dedicated to ARM for Mac)
Meteor2 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
"5G antennas integrated around the aluminium frame" -- who's going to bet that it'll be possible to hold it "wrong" again?dudedud - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
They corrected it on the 4S... or that's what I remember :/Meteor2 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
I know, I'm joking :-) .It is fascinating that they appear to have styled the phone entirely for the purposes of mmW reception
patel21 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Yes, looking at A14 and A12Z, it seems their SoC teams are busy with ARM for Macsyeeeeman - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
"all new design" - back to iphone 5 design :))still using 12mp camera.......
the only nice thing here is the price
SR-71 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
I bet Apple cameras will literally destroy any Android camera. Can't wait for the first reviews and of course Andrei review. ;)biigD - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Literally huh? Android cameras will just spontaneously combust when around an iPhone? ;)SaolDan - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Maybe he doesn't know what literally means. :PInteli - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
There's more to a camera than just resolution. There are also dynamic range and noise characteristics, as well as color rendering. My 12 year old, 12 megapixel Nikon D700 still takes fantastic photos, and I take it over any modern phone camera. The pictures are still higher resolution than any display I own, and unless you've got a 5k or higher display, they're higher resolution than any display you've got too.Glaurung - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Re "back to the old design" - sure, and that's good, since having actual corners instead of curves makes the phone grippier and less liable to jump out of my hand.trivik12 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Good stuff.Biggest one is 5.4" phone with flagship SOC and AMOLED screen.
All phones with at least 1080p resolution and AMOLED screen.
12 pro max with 1/1.7" sensor. You can only do so much with smaller sensor. Unfortunate they could not use the same primary sensor on all the phones.
starting price of 699. that is the model which is gonna sell like hot cakes. Even the "pro" models have not seen price increase despite base model going up to 128GB storage.
bad
Could not even put at least 90 hz screen in 2020.
I wish they used Persicope zoom in at least 12 pro max(4x zoom is not real optical zoom).
Still being 1st 5G phones from IOS side, I expect this to outsell 11 series despite being in COVID world with so many folks losing their jobs. I expect 699 phone to sell like hot cakes.
halcyon - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
That Mini will sell like hotcakes. Lots of built up upgrade pressure in the small form factor segment.SR-71 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
It is actually 4 or 5 optical zoom. Comparing to Ultra Wide which is: 0.5x to 2x. 2 divded by 0.5 is 4 optical zoom. I am going to sell my S20 5G and get 12 Pro Max which has everything I need and the best camera out there. At price of $1099 it's a hell of device.NorthernExposed - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
The cool thing is they shipped the Pro models 120hz capable. So if the issue that stopped it from being a launch feature is software side, the 120hz could be activated later. At least that was the last thing I read.SR-71 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Source of this information?willis936 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
NorthernExposed's ass.Teckk - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Apple will do that only with a launch event on a new iPhone.Super Retina Xdrx magic refresh
dudedud - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
The new camera system looks impressive, but will they keep some features to only the PROs?Deep fusion on all cameras and apple raw for example
SR-71 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
It's was stated these are Pro models features.dudedud - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
That would be a shame as all previous years all "software" features were available on all models.Roy2002 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
The major updates are 5G and frame.SR-71 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
As an 10 year Android user I have never wanted an iPhone (Pro Max) than this year. I am selling my S20+ 5G and getting 12 Pro Max with the biggest amount of storage I can afford (256 or 512GB).patel21 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Any specific reasons to share for other die hard android users.SR-71 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
It's all about cameras (now every single camera module has it's own Night Mode, and Pro Max has 12MP with 1/1.7 sensor and F1.6 aperture that will outclass competition in every aspect), the fastest and the same SoC in every iPhone and region, great Car Play (vs garbage Android Auto), excellent battery life (iPhone 11 Pro was beating my S20+ 5G by 2-3 hours of SoT), 5G (so it will be future proof), finally better display-to-body ratio and Face ID which works flawlessly. I was using an iPhone 11 Pro for a while and I loved Face ID. 6GB of RAM which will sufficient for long time (I don't play games). And video recording quality is in another universe comparing to my S20+ 5G device.I will couple iPhone 12 Pro Max with oldie-but-goldie S10 which is still a stellar smartphone that will serve as my storage & business machine for my 512 MicroSD card. ;)
RedGreenBlue - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
LiDar is only on the Pro models??? Way to guarantee nobody will care to make apps for it. What a moronic decision.SR-71 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Why is that?Glaurung - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
I cannot count the number of times Apple has introduced a feature on just the highest end model, and that feature then proceeded to migrate to all of their lineup over the next few years.ChrisGX - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
The $699 iPhone Mini is a smart competitive move by Apple. I don't think any similarly priced 5G phone that can only offer mid-range specs (think Pixel 5) will be able to attract buyers with this manifestly superior iPhone vying for the patronage customers in that market segment. Mid-range phones from Google, Oppo and Xiaomi might still do alright if those manufacturers find a way of shaving $150 or more off the price of their phones. I am going to be watching with interest as the other smartphones manufacturers begin to respond to this.fred666 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
I don't think the Pixel 5 is competitive against the 4a. Midrange buyers couldn't care less about 5G anyways.SR-71 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Pixels are joke comparing to iPhone 12 Mini/12 specs (Top End Apple SOC vs Midrange Android SoC) and Apple ecosystem.SaolDan - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
The apple ecosystem is the only thing keeping from going apple. Oh and IOS. I love the hardware but hate the software.Featherinmycap - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Really, you hate iOS that much? Other than much better notifications on android, and wildly popular in the states iMessage on the iPhone, they are nearly clones of each other (at least on the interface side of things).asfletch - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Actually, as of iOS 14, I’m not that fussed by the software. Pixels are more locked down than ever. However, I really like fingerprint for ID and (esp in 2020) wouldn’t want to be stuck with typing a PIN every time FaceID fails. Oh and imagine how nice these 12s would look without the notch....lucam - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Look forward to see how A14 with the new PowerVR Series A performs.It seems it completely destroys any mobile GPU by far 😊
GC2:CS - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
5.4" 135g phone getting 5G... BOTH sub6 and mmWave is crazy impressive.Other mmWave devices are literally twice as big.
Possibly an exclusivity on next gen 5nm Qualcomm modem is the reason ?
mini display is actually tiny bit narrower than legacy 4.7" phones. I view that as a negative.
Pro iPhones getting larger. Despite going significally thinner (LIKE a lot) they ARE heavier (why ???)!
Camera upgrades seem less impressive than I expected.... Telephoto and ultra-wide are generally the same (new sensors for faster captures). Wide has optics upgrade. Larger sensor and stronger zoom on the MAX only. HATE that. Software enhancements seem great though. WHY there is no night mode on the telephoto ???
Same displays, same glass bezzel size. The bezel was reduced by cutting the metal curvature out. A lot of work lies ahead (Max at 87.4% screen coverage +3% compared to 11 Max).
Ceramic shield is a must ;)
No info on A14 perf. They only said it is 50% better than any smartphone (excluding A13 ?).
We already know... A13 smokes dragons too. ISP and neural engine probably went sky high for what they have shown.
Battery life the same or slightly less. That is OK for me.
I personally expected more perf and camera upgrades, but only because those are things i would like to upgrade to. All was eaten up by some mighty impressive 5G addition from both engineering and cost standpoint. A14 is "hindered" by focus on ML and ISP. Possibly by less than stellar performance of 5nm and/or work in the larger Mac SoC.
Really like the thinner design. Just give Max cameras to the mini iPhone and i would pay 3000 for that... not happening sadly.
willis936 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
They really missed a beat *again by not putting a high refresh rate display on the pro models.Featherinmycap - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Higher refresh is nice, especially on Android phones that don't always scroll very smoothly. I think its far from a deal killer. Would of been a lot more useful on the iPad Air with its strong pen support.willis936 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
In a void it isn’t a deal killer. However, these phones bring very little to the table compared to previous generations. The lower price points are even more fleshed out and close to feature parity. The only thing really pro about the pro models are the price.Featherinmycap - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
"The only thing really pro about the pro models are the price." No, not really. You are getting some upgrades, such as stainless steel frame, much faster focusing and improved stabilization on video and stills, full 4K/60P with HDR, low light mode on all 3 sensors, etc.willis936 - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Those are all secondary luxury nice-to-haves. They aren’t big things like OLED displays, 5G, better SoCs, magsafe chargers, or high refresh rate displays.Lavkesh - Tuesday, October 13, 2020 - link
Samdung looks quite stupid now with those silly overpriced Galoxies.fspinto - Wednesday, October 14, 2020 - link
Only in US. In Europe a S20 is half the price of the iPhone 12 Pro so they're not even competing. The iPhone may even be a better phone, but it costs 1179 Euro for the base Pro model (1385 usd) while the S20 is around the 600 mark.vickykadam - Wednesday, November 18, 2020 - link
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