These sound awesome. Thanks for the update. Atom needs to quietly disappear and be replaced by these bad boys. Loving the SU7300 already, but more speed at same power consumption is always helpful.
Atom still has a useful place in the line-up; it is HUGELY less expensive than these parts. It is also HUGELY less powerful, but for quite a few applications, it is enough.
That being said, I have put together an Atom 330 based fanless/spindle-less system for a particular task but I am finding that it doesn't quite have enough horsepower for my needs. I am having a very hard time finding anything faster with low power consumption that is generally available for a 'standard' socket and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
I am interested in the new Athlon II 45 W parts but can't find them for sale anywhere. So what are my other options? I want 45W or less and my application doesn't need more than 2 cores. I also prefer not to go with a platform that has hugely expensive motherboards like Socket P.
Is it possible to buy a standard socket processor and underclock/undervolt it down to 45W? If so, which processor would be the best choice? Keep in mind that I need something at least twice, preferably three times, as fast as an Atom 330 ...
Llano should be out by the end of the year, and it has a TDP of 20-59W. Bobcat will be released about the same time, and it will be much more powerful than Atom, and be 1-10W.
One of those may meet your needs, if not maybe the Atom successor will do it, but I doubt it as Intel is working more on reducing power than increasing performance. (Which is what I would be doing if I were them too.)
Atom is underpowered for anything, but typing. Flash, HD video, PDFs or spreadsheets make it unusable for web-browsing or anything else. Even coupled with ION, it is still too slow to be practical.
Is it a bad sign that Acer rushed to release Timeline X with regular arrandales already? Or can we still expect a CULV-based version of their 3820, 4820 out soon?
And actually... what would be the difference? I get it that they can squeeze some more battery life or reduce weight with smaller battery, even go with a whole new slimmer design... but by how much?
And what about the price? I see you listed the price on a couple models, but with nothing to compare it to, I am left clueless. Are the CULVs considerably more expensive because of the stricter binning and the more specialized targeting, or are they cheaper because of the lower performance? The normal Arrandale Timeline X models are already much more expensive than the previous Timeline series, and I wonder if we can get a decrease soon.
Lastly, have you heard of any plans for a tablet convertible by any manufacturer using these new CULVs? Granted, I have no qualms about the CPU in my current tm2 and I am more looking forward to updates that fix the display quality issues, I am still curious in any expected developments in this field.
the "regular" arrendales consume a lot more power and are somewhat faster and cheaper than the CULV versions. They are better if you don't care how long the battery lasts, how much it weights, and want to pay less money. Expect them to live side by side, with the CULV offers being for those willing to pay more and sacrifice performance for extra battery and less weight.
Intel only discloses pricing on certain CPUs; the ones without price information are sold direct to OEMs with varying pricing deals apparently. As far as size, I wouldn't expect the new Arrandale CULV laptops to be any smaller/thinner than current CULV, but they'll be smaller/thinner than current Arrandale. I expect we'll see the cheapest units (with the Celeron U3400) start at around $600, similar to most current CULV, though I could be off.
As far as their use in tablets, if you means something close to the iPad I don't think they'll make it, but for convertible tablets they should work. Someone asked that question at the end of the webcast and Mooly Eden said "Tablets will require even smaller, lower power CPUs" but I think he was addressing the pure tablet (i.e. iPad) market space and not your laptop/tablet designs.
I have been waiting for those processors since february. Just hope they keep their promise: good performance without sacrifying battery life. And if they are coupled with Optimus grafics you can have it all in a tiny laptop!
So they already scrapped the i7-640UM (1.2 GHz) and i7-620UM (1.06 GHz). I guess no laptop makers wanted to build machines with such low frequencies, as they have problems in performance when compared to Core 2 Duo CULV machines at much higher frequencies and pretty much the same power envelope.
I just purchased two laptops,one with a sp9300 and a su2300. Can we get a review of all the CULV processors including the new Arrandale? Oh, battery life would be awesome as well... or maybe just power consumption.
Thanks for finally leaving that awful shared mouse button, so that you can only apply weight on the far ends of them. I really appreciate that. Now if only Asus would have done the same, it'd be great, since their keyboard got isolated keys, while the Acer only got separated one attracting hair and crumbles. Additionally, Asus are more well built and receives less repair claims.
Still... is it that hard to optimize everything?
* Quality display - Less brightness, full RGB LED and good blacks and viewing angles (saves energy with less brightness, and you hardly need it THAT bright) * Automatic dimming - There should be some way to monitor your surrounding and dim the display accordingly. * Option for SSD - These discs draw way less power and perform way better. Most of us buy these laptops because they are portable, and do not need more than 80-120GB storage for documents etc. * Auto clocking - Invent a technology that allows your computer to power completely down when typing in a Word document for instance. * Trackpad MacBook Edition - Utilize the little space better * Slim fit - Do not add a lot of bulk on one part of the laptop. Make it completely even, and mount flat rubber feet on it, not mountain peeks. * Magnetic shutting mechanism - Use weak magnets to keep the lid shut. Once again a space saver. * Skip the VGA port - Include a HDMI-to-VGA port instead, as it's an old technology. * USB 3
Almost forgot! Add enough graphics power for full HD. Not that you'll utilize it that much on a 1366x768 display, but YouTube for instance got "1080p" which looks better, but lags.
And you might be inclined to say: sure, but that would cost a lot more. Well, yes it would. However, if it's only 20-30% more, then I'm more than willing to pay so.
I'm pretty sure all of the Intel HD Graphics laptops can handle 1080p... I'm going to try YouTube quick to see what happens (with the Flash 10.1 RC5); it looks like the latest Intel drivers should handle 1080p with CULV and 4500MHD, as well as all the new Intel HD Graphics laptops.
A quick test shows an i3-330M with Intel HD handling Avatar 1080p YouTube (on a 2048x1152 external LCD) with no issues whatsoever. Doing the same test with a CULV SU4100 + 4500MHD gets about 15FPS with plenty of frame drops, though it's "watchable". So as best as I can tell, 1080p YouTube doesn't work without dropping frames on CULV + 4500MHD (yet).
I'd be curious to know how the different CPUs effect the IGP. At what point in the line do you become CPU limited instead of GPU limited? Will the i7 be over kill? Does the Celeron hold the graphics back? Being able to play Diablo2 on a seven hour plane trip would be great, but less so if it requires the most expensive model.
I'd say that the graphics are the limiting factor for most 3D games, but something like Diablo 2 is old enough that it will run fine on any i3/i5/i7 processor. The Intel HD Graphics are close to ATI HD 3200 in performance, and that means you generally start to become GPU limited when the CPU is dual-core 1.5GHz (give or take depending on architecture).
Ah I really hope we'll see some laptops with good build quality (oh please some good LCDs, I'd really pay a premium for that), small formfactor, good CPU performance and a IGP that at most needs to be able to decode 1080p video (I could live without that, but HW accelerated flash should make that easily doable). I really don't need a GPU for anything I'd want to do with my laptop, but that doesn't mean I want some cheap laptop..
Okay Asus, Sony, Compal; pay attention! I want a 15" laptop with one of these CPU's; i5 with i7 upgrade option. An AMD 5650 GPU, a 500GB seagate Momentus XT HDD. 4-8GB of RAM, HDMI out, and a screen with a resolution of 1600x900 with 1080p upgrade option. If someone can offer me a laptop like that, built with no OS included for about a thousand bucks I'm pretty sure I'd pull the trigger. Though I really do want to wait for all the USB ports to be USB 3.0.
P.S. Not necessary, but it'd be nice if the CPU was overclocked to 2GHz or higher; Asus proved in the last CULV CPU's that the overclock pretty well.
If someone could do a review on the laptop that I
currently suspect is the best "bang for your buck" out
there. It's made by compal, and available on Cyberpower.com who's
machines you've reviewed before.
If you'd like it configured like I did, which I think is the best bang
for buck, do this:
Go to the website.
mouse over 15.6" Laptops and click on the $999 Xplorer X6-8500. It has a 1080p screen.
(I'm not sure why the people who run this site do this, but even though the other
configurations use the same chassis when personalized they
come out to cost more than this one; annoying since it makes me configure all 3
or 4 machines built on the same base chassis to figure out which one is
cheapest/best for me.)
Then I configured
it with the Core i7-620M CPU. (to get it over 1K so I can take advantage of the 5%
off.) 4GB 0DDR3-1333, hopefully 7-7-7-21, probably not, but
hopefully.
ATI MR HD5650 1GB GDDR3
320GB 7200rpm HDD (I did this cause I'm gonna take that HDD out
and use the Seagate Momentus XT 500GB, thanks for that
review!!)
Everything else on that page I left untouched.
The only thing I did on page 2 was switch to Intel wifi with bluetooth;
Though I'm curious if the MSI option is
equal/better; 17 bucks isn't nothing.
It has HDMI out and a fingerprint reader. This page says 3 USB ports,
the specs sheet says 4USB ports; not sure which is true. (I do wish
they were USB 3.0 ports, but I was hoping you guys would test some stuff and
tell me if that even matters for use with an external hard drive, mechanical
disk 7200rpm. Transferring large files like movies and games mostly.)
On page 3 I select "none, format only" for
the OS. And select "LCD perfect assurance" cause even 1 dead pixel is
unacceptable to me.
This brings the total to $1008.90 after 5% off, or $992.75 if
you get the MSI network card.
So yeah, I really hope you guys can get a hold of one of these
for review; as a loner or given as a review unit or maybe
someone will just buy one and review it cause it's really tempting me right now...
like a lot!
If you're review is good I'm gonna start
saving up and hopefully be able to buy it around Christmas. Thanks
guys! A loyal reader. - Brian
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29 Comments
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ImSpartacus - Monday, May 24, 2010 - link
"Intel states that the i5-430UM beast the old SU7300 by about 30% in PCMark Vantage.""beast" --> "beats"
Nice preview article. God, I can't wait until these start hitting the market!
CZroe - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
I think he meant "bests" as in "one bests the other."JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
No, I meant "beats". LOL. I fixed the typo.sleepeeg3 - Monday, May 24, 2010 - link
These sound awesome. Thanks for the update. Atom needs to quietly disappear and be replaced by these bad boys. Loving the SU7300 already, but more speed at same power consumption is always helpful.bji - Monday, May 24, 2010 - link
Atom still has a useful place in the line-up; it is HUGELY less expensive than these parts. It is also HUGELY less powerful, but for quite a few applications, it is enough.That being said, I have put together an Atom 330 based fanless/spindle-less system for a particular task but I am finding that it doesn't quite have enough horsepower for my needs. I am having a very hard time finding anything faster with low power consumption that is generally available for a 'standard' socket and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
I am interested in the new Athlon II 45 W parts but can't find them for sale anywhere. So what are my other options? I want 45W or less and my application doesn't need more than 2 cores. I also prefer not to go with a platform that has hugely expensive motherboards like Socket P.
Is it possible to buy a standard socket processor and underclock/undervolt it down to 45W? If so, which processor would be the best choice? Keep in mind that I need something at least twice, preferably three times, as fast as an Atom 330 ...
Martimus - Monday, May 24, 2010 - link
Llano should be out by the end of the year, and it has a TDP of 20-59W. Bobcat will be released about the same time, and it will be much more powerful than Atom, and be 1-10W.One of those may meet your needs, if not maybe the Atom successor will do it, but I doubt it as Intel is working more on reducing power than increasing performance. (Which is what I would be doing if I were them too.)
Zoomer - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
One example:http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=oper...
Just lookup wiki's list of processors and find by keyword. :)
sleepeeg3 - Wednesday, June 30, 2010 - link
Atom is underpowered for anything, but typing. Flash, HD video, PDFs or spreadsheets make it unusable for web-browsing or anything else. Even coupled with ION, it is still too slow to be practical.SpeedDemonAaron - Monday, May 24, 2010 - link
Any ballpark estimates when we can expect to see the Asus laptops start shipping with this?JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
June seems likely, since two of the demo models are ASUS (UL30 and UL80).Visual - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
Is it a bad sign that Acer rushed to release Timeline X with regular arrandales already?Or can we still expect a CULV-based version of their 3820, 4820 out soon?
And actually... what would be the difference? I get it that they can squeeze some more battery life or reduce weight with smaller battery, even go with a whole new slimmer design... but by how much?
And what about the price? I see you listed the price on a couple models, but with nothing to compare it to, I am left clueless. Are the CULVs considerably more expensive because of the stricter binning and the more specialized targeting, or are they cheaper because of the lower performance? The normal Arrandale Timeline X models are already much more expensive than the previous Timeline series, and I wonder if we can get a decrease soon.
Lastly, have you heard of any plans for a tablet convertible by any manufacturer using these new CULVs? Granted, I have no qualms about the CPU in my current tm2 and I am more looking forward to updates that fix the display quality issues, I am still curious in any expected developments in this field.
taltamir - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
the "regular" arrendales consume a lot more power and are somewhat faster and cheaper than the CULV versions. They are better if you don't care how long the battery lasts, how much it weights, and want to pay less money. Expect them to live side by side, with the CULV offers being for those willing to pay more and sacrifice performance for extra battery and less weight.JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
Intel only discloses pricing on certain CPUs; the ones without price information are sold direct to OEMs with varying pricing deals apparently. As far as size, I wouldn't expect the new Arrandale CULV laptops to be any smaller/thinner than current CULV, but they'll be smaller/thinner than current Arrandale. I expect we'll see the cheapest units (with the Celeron U3400) start at around $600, similar to most current CULV, though I could be off.As far as their use in tablets, if you means something close to the iPad I don't think they'll make it, but for convertible tablets they should work. Someone asked that question at the end of the webcast and Mooly Eden said "Tablets will require even smaller, lower power CPUs" but I think he was addressing the pure tablet (i.e. iPad) market space and not your laptop/tablet designs.
zac206 - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
I have been waiting for those processors since february. Just hope they keep their promise: good performance without sacrifying battery life. And if they are coupled with Optimus grafics you can have it all in a tiny laptop!Pjotr - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
So they already scrapped the i7-640UM (1.2 GHz) and i7-620UM (1.06 GHz). I guess no laptop makers wanted to build machines with such low frequencies, as they have problems in performance when compared to Core 2 Duo CULV machines at much higher frequencies and pretty much the same power envelope.stu.had - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
I'd love to see a roundup of low voltage laptops from amd and intel,Zstream - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
I just purchased two laptops,one with a sp9300 and a su2300. Can we get a review of all the CULV processors including the new Arrandale? Oh, battery life would be awesome as well... or maybe just power consumption.effortless - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
Thanks for finally leaving that awful shared mouse button, so that you can only apply weight on the far ends of them. I really appreciate that. Now if only Asus would have done the same, it'd be great, since their keyboard got isolated keys, while the Acer only got separated one attracting hair and crumbles. Additionally, Asus are more well built and receives less repair claims.Still... is it that hard to optimize everything?
* Quality display - Less brightness, full RGB LED and good blacks and viewing angles (saves energy with less brightness, and you hardly need it THAT bright)
* Automatic dimming - There should be some way to monitor your surrounding and dim the display accordingly.
* Option for SSD - These discs draw way less power and perform way better. Most of us buy these laptops because they are portable, and do not need more than 80-120GB storage for documents etc.
* Auto clocking - Invent a technology that allows your computer to power completely down when typing in a Word document for instance.
* Trackpad MacBook Edition - Utilize the little space better
* Slim fit - Do not add a lot of bulk on one part of the laptop. Make it completely even, and mount flat rubber feet on it, not mountain peeks.
* Magnetic shutting mechanism - Use weak magnets to keep the lid shut. Once again a space saver.
* Skip the VGA port - Include a HDMI-to-VGA port instead, as it's an old technology.
* USB 3
effortless - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
Almost forgot! Add enough graphics power for full HD. Not that you'll utilize it that much on a 1366x768 display, but YouTube for instance got "1080p" which looks better, but lags.effortless - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
And you might be inclined to say: sure, but that would cost a lot more. Well, yes it would. However, if it's only 20-30% more, then I'm more than willing to pay so.JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
I'm pretty sure all of the Intel HD Graphics laptops can handle 1080p... I'm going to try YouTube quick to see what happens (with the Flash 10.1 RC5); it looks like the latest Intel drivers should handle 1080p with CULV and 4500MHD, as well as all the new Intel HD Graphics laptops.A quick test shows an i3-330M with Intel HD handling Avatar 1080p YouTube (on a 2048x1152 external LCD) with no issues whatsoever. Doing the same test with a CULV SU4100 + 4500MHD gets about 15FPS with plenty of frame drops, though it's "watchable". So as best as I can tell, 1080p YouTube doesn't work without dropping frames on CULV + 4500MHD (yet).
Mr Perfect - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
I'd be curious to know how the different CPUs effect the IGP. At what point in the line do you become CPU limited instead of GPU limited? Will the i7 be over kill? Does the Celeron hold the graphics back? Being able to play Diablo2 on a seven hour plane trip would be great, but less so if it requires the most expensive model.JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
I'd say that the graphics are the limiting factor for most 3D games, but something like Diablo 2 is old enough that it will run fine on any i3/i5/i7 processor. The Intel HD Graphics are close to ATI HD 3200 in performance, and that means you generally start to become GPU limited when the CPU is dual-core 1.5GHz (give or take depending on architecture).Mr Perfect - Wednesday, May 26, 2010 - link
Hmm. If that holds true, then hopefully the i5-430UM is all the IGP needs to keep from being CPU bound. That's probably still a $200 part though.8steve8 - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
Could someone give a list of the laptops shown in the gallery?I'm curious about the 2nd photo , it's an asus, but not the same asus as photo #3.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
I've added captions; the second is the ASUS UL30 and the third is the UL80. The last laptop is of unknown manufacturer.Voo - Tuesday, May 25, 2010 - link
Ah I really hope we'll see some laptops with good build quality (oh please some good LCDs, I'd really pay a premium for that), small formfactor, good CPU performance and a IGP that at most needs to be able to decode 1080p video (I could live without that, but HW accelerated flash should make that easily doable).I really don't need a GPU for anything I'd want to do with my laptop, but that doesn't mean I want some cheap laptop..
Hrel - Sunday, May 30, 2010 - link
Okay Asus, Sony, Compal; pay attention! I want a 15" laptop with one of these CPU's; i5 with i7 upgrade option. An AMD 5650 GPU, a 500GB seagate Momentus XT HDD. 4-8GB of RAM, HDMI out, and a screen with a resolution of 1600x900 with 1080p upgrade option. If someone can offer me a laptop like that, built with no OS included for about a thousand bucks I'm pretty sure I'd pull the trigger. Though I really do want to wait for all the USB ports to be USB 3.0.P.S. Not necessary, but it'd be nice if the CPU was overclocked to 2GHz or higher; Asus proved in the last CULV CPU's that the overclock pretty well.
Hrel - Monday, June 7, 2010 - link
If someone could do a review on the laptop that I currently suspect is the best "bang for your buck" out there. It's made by compal, and available on Cyberpower.com who's machines you've reviewed before. If you'd like it configured like I did, which I think is the best bang for buck, do this: Go to the website. mouse over 15.6" Laptops and click on the $999 Xplorer X6-8500. It has a 1080p screen. (I'm not sure why the people who run this site do this, but even though the other configurations use the same chassis when personalized they come out to cost more than this one; annoying since it makes me configure all 3 or 4 machines built on the same base chassis to figure out which one is cheapest/best for me.) Then I configured it with the Core i7-620M CPU. (to get it over 1K so I can take advantage of the 5% off.) 4GB 0DDR3-1333, hopefully 7-7-7-21, probably not, but hopefully. ATI MR HD5650 1GB GDDR3 320GB 7200rpm HDD (I did this cause I'm gonna take that HDD out and use the Seagate Momentus XT 500GB, thanks for that review!!) Everything else on that page I left untouched. The only thing I did on page 2 was switch to Intel wifi with bluetooth; Though I'm curious if the MSI option is equal/better; 17 bucks isn't nothing. It has HDMI out and a fingerprint reader. This page says 3 USB ports, the specs sheet says 4USB ports; not sure which is true. (I do wish they were USB 3.0 ports, but I was hoping you guys would test some stuff and tell me if that even matters for use with an external hard drive, mechanical disk 7200rpm. Transferring large files like movies and games mostly.) On page 3 I select "none, format only" for the OS. And select "LCD perfect assurance" cause even 1 dead pixel is unacceptable to me. This brings the total to $1008.90 after 5% off, or $992.75 if you get the MSI network card. So yeah, I really hope you guys can get a hold of one of these for review; as a loner or given as a review unit or maybe someone will just buy one and review it cause it's really tempting me right now... like a lot! If you're review is good I'm gonna start saving up and hopefully be able to buy it around Christmas. Thanks guys! A loyal reader. - Brian