As a Vita owner, that doesn't make me happy. It's likely to be way more powerful, and already have the full library of PC games at its disposal. Only, what OS is it running? What are these "impressive specs"? All important questions...
Haswell would certainly be an intelligent way to go, especially if you stuck to on-die graphics. I'm not sure how that would play with a 1080p display though, I think if you wanted to keep most games playable at native res you'd stick to some form of WXGA. I'd love to see a 1280x800 display like the concept, preferably with an IPS panel, but I guess we'll see.
With small enough pixels (1080p/1200p @ 10" is quite small in my book), sticking with the native resolution is not as necessary as when we are dealing with 1080p/1200p @ anything from 24" to 50". Aren't quite a few iPad3 apps rendered in a lower resolution? I didn't see anyone really complaining about that.
@News: Definitely a fun product, though I expect very niche. And I wouldn't buy the first revision of this. :D
It would barely be noticeable on a 1080p 10" display. The PPI would be very high compared to 1080p monitors. Any gaming tablet should have 1080p or higher because even if you don't use the native res things are still going to look good.
And i like the idea of this product. I've been saying for a long time that Win 8 will bring all kinds of imaginative products to market, people don't seem to understand how much of a game changer it can be. I mean just Win 8 gaming tablets alone can make mobile handhelds like the PS Vita obsolete as you have the biggest library of games on any system instantly available.
It's definitely not Haswell, considering it is/was slated for a 2H 2012 launch. I don't see a 1080p display being possible given the power usage that's likely to come with using Ivy Bridge.
As a Vita owner... I don't understand your point of view. They are not competing products. One is a handheld, on which every game is guaranteed to play smoothly and without issue. The other is a windows tablet with silly handles that will offer no consistency of experience.
Razer already proved they don't know how to build a gaming machine with the blade (packing a ridiculous 555 to drive a 1080p display), I don't expect this to be any better.
Is the image accurate for the layout of the controls (at least at CES)? It seems like it'd be horrible to try to use the analog sticks and the buttons on both sides simultaneously, while holding the device. Having the buttons on the backside seems like it would make far more sense.
I can vouch for the existence of at least one design concept, but I have no reason to doubt the existence of others. And it's not like Razer hasn't executed in the past - even a far-out concept like Switchblade got worked into the Blade as well as their high end keyboards. If anything concerns me, it's the release schedule (or lack of one) and the as-yet-undecided hardware platform. This could be something that doesn't launch until PAX Prime next September, which is a long time to wait.
It is really simple and obvious how they should design most aspects of it.
It must be full x86, compatible with any version of Windows. If anyone on the team ever mentions ARM, fire them or at least force them to only ever play angry birds for the next year. It must have at least Intel HD4000 level of GPU performance. No crippled HD2500 i3 is acceptable, and don't even mention the Atoms. And this minimum requirement goes up the longer they delay their product - when Haswell launches, that would be the minimum, etc.
It must be usable as a normal tablet - the controls must be detachable. It must have an active digitizer for use in that mode. Wacom preferred.
It must have a track-pad for precise cursor control in windows and in games that just can't work well with pen or touch for some reason. Several design options are possible here, and I admit I am not sure which would be best. - They could place it on the tablet bezel so it is available in pure tablet mode, ala MSI 110w, and add a few programmable buttons on the bezel while they're at it. But have the additional handles with controls close enough to the bezel so it is still comfortable to reach the track-pad with them as well. - They could even have the whole bezel being touch sensitive, and have some area of it work as a track-pad, some as programmable buttons, and even support bezel gestures and such, that I think were planned as supported with Windows 8 anyway. - They could have it on the back of the tablet or the back of the handles, or both. Will be a bit weird to get used to, but might work ok. Consult PS Vita owners ;) - They could replace one of the analog sticks with a trackpad as well, with some kind of toggle if it should emulate a mouse or an analog stick.
RE: the CPU and GPU I'd actually prefer even better GPU and would sacrifice CPU performance for it. Maybe some AMD APU... too bad they never gave Brazos a real update, and unlike on the desktop, on the mobile even Trinity sucks and is barely better than Intel in GPU performance. Not sure if it is worth the battery life drop. Still, if they made an AMD variant I'd probably buy it to support them for their guts for trying things out.
It has no meaning whatsoever in the majority of cases it crops up, including here. "with community feedback apparently set to play a significant role in the design process." - correct english; concise; neat and tidy.
means exactly the same as:
"with community feedback apparently set to play a significant role in the design process going forward" - tautology; drawn out; messy.
To me it always reads as though the writer hasn't understood what he has just written, and as though the article hasn't been checked before publishing.
I never used to notice, but now I see it nearly everywhere and it's maddening!
Except that it's a product that's already had a significant portion of the design process completed, or at least enough that there are multiple design concepts. To this point, it's been purely internal, but going forward (or if you prefer - "in the future" or "the next steps of") the design process will be crowdsourced. I can't vouch for the other places you notice it, but it definitely has a meaning in this application - it refers directly to Razer decision to turn to the community in the remaining steps to complete Project Fiona.
Or perhaps I just don't understand what I'm talking about.
That's already covered by the tense of the sentence. They're obviously not 'set to play a significant role' in the design work that has already been done.
It's not necessary, but if emphasis is required then anything is better than the clichéd and annoying "going forward", such as: "in the remaining/remainder of the design process" "refining the design" "in the final stage of the design process" "further design" "future design process"
"going foward" seems to imply there is an alternative; that we could somehow go back in time.
I don't mean to be hypercritical, but it's become a pet-peeve of mine and there is always a better way to write a sentence without 'going forward'.
To be fair pretty much ANY Win 8 tablet could do this though, as long s it has a Core i5 or i7. Its also inevitable that companies will eventually bring out game pads that join on to these tablets like in the image here. All Win 8 tablets will have USB after all, or they can use bluetooth.
I was certainly more interested in a potential x86 version of this thing, but the poster below me here seems to make a decent case against that happening.
Intel have released volume pricing on the first iteration of Haswell and it already has OEM's up in arms. Insane pricing aside, if they do go with x86 then everyone will then expect all the latest PC games to run on it. But no modern PC game is going to run at decent FPS on an intel integrated GPU. Even Haswell's GPU is too puny for that.
So add the cost of a GeForce Mobile GPU to the already VERY expensive ivy bridge/Haswell Mobile CPU and the required platform support chipset and you have a $1000+ tablet. There is NO market for a $1000+ tablet.
Much more likely to be just another ARM tablet, albeit with fancy (ergonomically impractical) handles. Typical Razer stuff, nice to look at, garbage electronics inside. Want portable gaming? Get a Vita. Want angry birds with joysticks? Buy Razer.
It would be great to see A-15 dual with an A7 and an M3 companion, and Mali T-658 quad graphics. That said, no other ARM solution will provide the necessary power to compete at the price this will hit, and Razer probably doesn't want to do their own design.
"According to Min's Facebook page, there are are multiple design concepts that have been developed, so there is no final design specification as of yet."
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
Facebook
Twitter
RSS
36 Comments
Back to Article
TareX - Thursday, October 4, 2012 - link
As a Vita owner, that doesn't make me happy. It's likely to be way more powerful, and already have the full library of PC games at its disposal. Only, what OS is it running? What are these "impressive specs"? All important questions...stm1185 - Thursday, October 4, 2012 - link
Obviously Windows 8 for OS. I'd bet it get's a ULV Haswell i7; without a dedicated GPU and a bump to 1920x1080 on the resolution.VivekGowri - Thursday, October 4, 2012 - link
Haswell would certainly be an intelligent way to go, especially if you stuck to on-die graphics. I'm not sure how that would play with a 1080p display though, I think if you wanted to keep most games playable at native res you'd stick to some form of WXGA. I'd love to see a 1280x800 display like the concept, preferably with an IPS panel, but I guess we'll see.Death666Angel - Thursday, October 4, 2012 - link
With small enough pixels (1080p/1200p @ 10" is quite small in my book), sticking with the native resolution is not as necessary as when we are dealing with 1080p/1200p @ anything from 24" to 50".Aren't quite a few iPad3 apps rendered in a lower resolution? I didn't see anyone really complaining about that.
@News: Definitely a fun product, though I expect very niche. And I wouldn't buy the first revision of this. :D
Friendly0Fire - Saturday, October 6, 2012 - link
The iPad uses an integer multiple of the former model, so pixel scaling is not an issue.Non-integer scaling introduces all sorts of aliasing issues, even with 1080p.
B3an - Sunday, October 7, 2012 - link
It would barely be noticeable on a 1080p 10" display. The PPI would be very high compared to 1080p monitors. Any gaming tablet should have 1080p or higher because even if you don't use the native res things are still going to look good.And i like the idea of this product. I've been saying for a long time that Win 8 will bring all kinds of imaginative products to market, people don't seem to understand how much of a game changer it can be. I mean just Win 8 gaming tablets alone can make mobile handhelds like the PS Vita obsolete as you have the biggest library of games on any system instantly available.
KoolAidMan1 - Tuesday, October 9, 2012 - link
Nonsense, scaling is still noticeable at that pixel density.Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer - Thursday, October 4, 2012 - link
The problem with 1280x800 on this is the same as on the ElitePad 900...no Metro app snapping. Maybe 1440x900 though?VivekGowri - Thursday, October 4, 2012 - link
Oh yeah, 1366 minimum for Metro snapping right?Hrel - Thursday, January 3, 2013 - link
1368Homeles - Thursday, October 4, 2012 - link
It's definitely not Haswell, considering it is/was slated for a 2H 2012 launch. I don't see a 1080p display being possible given the power usage that's likely to come with using Ivy Bridge.Mathieu Bourgie - Friday, October 5, 2012 - link
Might just be those rumored IB 10W CPUs that are supposed to launch in H1 2013.stm1185 - Saturday, October 6, 2012 - link
Yeah, but would they really sell a gaming PC with an HD4000. I hope they decided to wait for Haswell and a good minimum level of gaming capability.Sufo - Friday, October 5, 2012 - link
As a Vita owner... I don't understand your point of view. They are not competing products. One is a handheld, on which every game is guaranteed to play smoothly and without issue. The other is a windows tablet with silly handles that will offer no consistency of experience.Razer already proved they don't know how to build a gaming machine with the blade (packing a ridiculous 555 to drive a 1080p display), I don't expect this to be any better.
R3MF - Monday, October 8, 2012 - link
"What are these "impressive specs"?"A 28nm AMD APU using the new Jaguar cores and GCN shaders would seem to be a good match.
KitsuneKnight - Thursday, October 4, 2012 - link
Is the image accurate for the layout of the controls (at least at CES)? It seems like it'd be horrible to try to use the analog sticks and the buttons on both sides simultaneously, while holding the device. Having the buttons on the backside seems like it would make far more sense.VivekGowri - Thursday, October 4, 2012 - link
Yeah. There are triggers on both sides, DS3-style, so it's not bad at all.chris2kari - Thursday, October 4, 2012 - link
"...production plans for the tablet are a go...'""...there are are multiple design concepts..."
"...there is no final design specification as of yet.."
Um.. what?
Seems like vapourware to me.
VivekGowri - Thursday, October 4, 2012 - link
I can vouch for the existence of at least one design concept, but I have no reason to doubt the existence of others. And it's not like Razer hasn't executed in the past - even a far-out concept like Switchblade got worked into the Blade as well as their high end keyboards. If anything concerns me, it's the release schedule (or lack of one) and the as-yet-undecided hardware platform. This could be something that doesn't launch until PAX Prime next September, which is a long time to wait.Visual - Friday, October 5, 2012 - link
It is really simple and obvious how they should design most aspects of it.It must be full x86, compatible with any version of Windows. If anyone on the team ever mentions ARM, fire them or at least force them to only ever play angry birds for the next year.
It must have at least Intel HD4000 level of GPU performance. No crippled HD2500 i3 is acceptable, and don't even mention the Atoms. And this minimum requirement goes up the longer they delay their product - when Haswell launches, that would be the minimum, etc.
It must be usable as a normal tablet - the controls must be detachable.
It must have an active digitizer for use in that mode. Wacom preferred.
It must have a track-pad for precise cursor control in windows and in games that just can't work well with pen or touch for some reason. Several design options are possible here, and I admit I am not sure which would be best.
- They could place it on the tablet bezel so it is available in pure tablet mode, ala MSI 110w, and add a few programmable buttons on the bezel while they're at it. But have the additional handles with controls close enough to the bezel so it is still comfortable to reach the track-pad with them as well.
- They could even have the whole bezel being touch sensitive, and have some area of it work as a track-pad, some as programmable buttons, and even support bezel gestures and such, that I think were planned as supported with Windows 8 anyway.
- They could have it on the back of the tablet or the back of the handles, or both. Will be a bit weird to get used to, but might work ok. Consult PS Vita owners ;)
- They could replace one of the analog sticks with a trackpad as well, with some kind of toggle if it should emulate a mouse or an analog stick.
Visual - Friday, October 5, 2012 - link
RE: the CPU and GPUI'd actually prefer even better GPU and would sacrifice CPU performance for it. Maybe some AMD APU... too bad they never gave Brazos a real update, and unlike on the desktop, on the mobile even Trinity sucks and is barely better than Intel in GPU performance. Not sure if it is worth the battery life drop. Still, if they made an AMD variant I'd probably buy it to support them for their guts for trying things out.
sstteevveenn - Friday, October 5, 2012 - link
"Going forward" adds nothing to that sentence, or any other sentence that people tack it on to. :/Sufo - Friday, October 5, 2012 - link
It is annoying management speak, but it certainly has meaning.sstteevveenn - Friday, October 5, 2012 - link
It has no meaning whatsoever in the majority of cases it crops up, including here. "with community feedback apparently set to play a significant role in the design process." - correct english; concise; neat and tidy.means exactly the same as:
"with community feedback apparently set to play a significant role in the design process going forward" - tautology; drawn out; messy.
To me it always reads as though the writer hasn't understood what he has just written, and as though the article hasn't been checked before publishing.
I never used to notice, but now I see it nearly everywhere and it's maddening!
VivekGowri - Saturday, October 6, 2012 - link
Except that it's a product that's already had a significant portion of the design process completed, or at least enough that there are multiple design concepts. To this point, it's been purely internal, but going forward (or if you prefer - "in the future" or "the next steps of") the design process will be crowdsourced. I can't vouch for the other places you notice it, but it definitely has a meaning in this application - it refers directly to Razer decision to turn to the community in the remaining steps to complete Project Fiona.Or perhaps I just don't understand what I'm talking about.
sstteevveenn - Saturday, October 6, 2012 - link
That's already covered by the tense of the sentence. They're obviously not 'set to play a significant role' in the design work that has already been done.It's not necessary, but if emphasis is required then anything is better than the clichéd and annoying "going forward", such as:
"in the remaining/remainder of the design process"
"refining the design"
"in the final stage of the design process"
"further design"
"future design process"
"going foward" seems to imply there is an alternative; that we could somehow go back in time.
I don't mean to be hypercritical, but it's become a pet-peeve of mine and there is always a better way to write a sentence without 'going forward'.
SydneyBlue120d - Friday, October 5, 2012 - link
They may go with Haswell Intel Core i7 SOC or Samsung Exynos 5450 SOC...rallyhard - Friday, October 5, 2012 - link
I'll be keeping an eye on thisB3an - Sunday, October 7, 2012 - link
To be fair pretty much ANY Win 8 tablet could do this though, as long s it has a Core i5 or i7. Its also inevitable that companies will eventually bring out game pads that join on to these tablets like in the image here. All Win 8 tablets will have USB after all, or they can use bluetooth.rallyhard - Monday, October 15, 2012 - link
Good points.I was certainly more interested in a potential x86 version of this thing, but the poster below me here seems to make a decent case against that happening.
khanov - Saturday, October 6, 2012 - link
No chance an x86 CPU. No way.Intel have released volume pricing on the first iteration of Haswell and it already has OEM's up in arms. Insane pricing aside, if they do go with x86 then everyone will then expect all the latest PC games to run on it. But no modern PC game is going to run at decent FPS on an intel integrated GPU. Even Haswell's GPU is too puny for that.
So add the cost of a GeForce Mobile GPU to the already VERY expensive ivy bridge/Haswell Mobile CPU and the required platform support chipset and you have a $1000+ tablet. There is NO market for a $1000+ tablet.
Much more likely to be just another ARM tablet, albeit with fancy (ergonomically impractical) handles. Typical Razer stuff, nice to look at, garbage electronics inside. Want portable gaming? Get a Vita. Want angry birds with joysticks? Buy Razer.
Fox5 - Saturday, October 6, 2012 - link
GPU performance is by far more important, and as a secondary device price is very important.Depending on what TDP they're going for, one of the higher end Bobcat chips might be decent, at least enough for some light gaming.
And at that same TDP, the lower end Trinity chips are also viable, and who knows, maybe they could get AMD to validate some ULV chips for them.
lmcd - Sunday, October 7, 2012 - link
It would be great to see A-15 dual with an A7 and an M3 companion, and Mali T-658 quad graphics. That said, no other ARM solution will provide the necessary power to compete at the price this will hit, and Razer probably doesn't want to do their own design.grammarnazibot - Tuesday, October 9, 2012 - link
"According to Min's Facebook page, there are are multiple design concepts that have been developed, so there is no final design specification as of yet."Hrel - Thursday, January 3, 2013 - link
I thought Microsoft was making an ARM version of Windows 8... or did they change their minds? I read it here on anadtech.raok7 - Thursday, September 5, 2013 - link
this tab will be more useful for kids they just love games, its been a long time they have to introduce with such technology....___________________
http://www.jupiterelectronics.com/
http://www.steelrange.com/heavy-duty-racks.html
http://www.bajeria.com/
http://www.genesis-gifts.com/
http://www.opportune.in
http://www.fivebrosforgings.com/
http://www.aimaxprovider.com/index.php/magento-web...