"crossed for a GT3e/Crystallwell park." Not likely unless you want to pay $700 for the box!. The cpu part for GT3e chip is already $465!. Such a box should be $350 to 500 with 4GB DDR3 ram and without disk.
A tiny Linux box with open-source driver support for honest-to-goodness decent graphics? I'd seriously consider paying $700 for that. It wouldn't have to be THIS small (personally I'd want room for a 2.5" SSD and a 3.5" HDD), but yeah.
Depends on who you are, why you need it, and what you're willing to pay for it. Lots of users have paid more than they should have on iPad's ($900+ for an iPad?) on a yearly basis.
Paying $700 for a tiny box that has a decent gaming box in it that you can throw in your bag might be worth a laugh to those. The fact that the GT3e-quipped chip itself is going to be niche shouldn't be a stopper since... it's a niche product in and of itself.
Why is it a niche? Because Intel makes it so. Clearly, they aren't making many of them, which is why the GT3e is so rare in the lineup. This is their test run for next year when that cache will explode across all the lines, which is also why Intel is being rumored so heavily to be skipping LGA with next year's update (which may well end up making this year's update look incredible if we all thought this year's update was bad for the desktop).
So really, there's no reason to keep the niche product from the niche product. Asus's version looks like it might suit me more if it really takes 3.5" drives though...
Definitely more interested in the Kabini variant. Kabini should be more than adequate for HTPC use, and it should be quite affordable. While a Haswell/Crystalwell part would be swell for performance, that'd jack up the price to an unreasonable level, as far as I'm concerned.
Please do update with price/availability when you find out, Ian.
I should quantify my statement to be more about the 28W dual-core Haswell part with GT3 graphics, the Iris 5100, as listed by the announced ASUS Zenbook infinity. 28W will keep the heat down and the GT3 graphics will help as well. I didn't realise the high prices of the GT3e parts though. I'm coming from using a Lenovo Q180 mini PC with 4GB as my work PC, (initially was my HTPC), which uses the older Atom. I am not interested in the Kabini as I understand it has the same performance as the old atom except at half the wattage. My atom is truly dreadful as my work pc, so I suspect the kabini will be too (although great as an HTPC).
Anyway I'm looking at this as a small work PC attached to the 24inch monitor, rather than as an HTPC, so more understanding of higher prices.
Not sure why you are linking to that Anand report? Kabini's compute is 0.39 compared to a pentium IB at 1.0, no mention of an old Core 2? I agree that the GPU side of things is equal if not better for the kabini. It quotes " As a result, Kabini doesn’t really gain any ground here. In my own use, I can feel a performance difference between the 2020M and the A4-5000 in tasks like installing/launching applications, as well as bigger CPU bound activities." 202M is an IB part as it states. Core 2 was 5ys+ ago. Is it possible to compare a core 2 with Kabini on a CPU comparison website? I would be surprised if Kabini's compute is a good as an old core 2, even one that is 5yrs old, but I freely admit to not knowing for sure.
AMD's "netbook" chips are consistently ahead of Atom in performance. Honestly, for most people a Kabini BRIX would be all the desktop computer they need for the next few years.
"I am not interested in the Kabini as I understand it has the same performance as the old atom except at half the wattage." You may be thinking of the Temash implementation of the Jaguar cores. That is the one that is supposed to go into very thin and light notebooks and tablets and has between 4 and 9W TDP. Kabini is one step up from that with a TDP between 9 and 25W. Take a look at the AnandTech review of the A4-5000 and you see it has more than double the single threaded performance of the Atom in Cinebench (.39 vs .17) and nearly triple the multi threaded performance of it (1.5 vs .52). Furthermore Computerbase.de has comparisons to the Celeron 847 (Sandy Bridge) and I'm sure you can find some between the Celeron and previous Core architectures. :)
Ah yes you are right I am getting the two confused. That certainly makes the kabini more interesting to me. I will have a look and see how the HD4600 compares to the kabini. I think I have been scarred by the atom performance and do not want to risk too low compute performance again. I like the icores as you know what sort of compute performance you are getting, but my experience of amd APUs, outside of dGPUs, is limited. The final prices of these two systems will be interesting. Ian if you've had this guided tour let us in on the info! Thanks
I'd like one of these for ~$120, add a mSATA for $80, some DDR3 Sodimm for $40 to get a Windows Media Center box for my TVs. CableCard TV and streaming recorded TV from a NAS is the goal here, although now I am starting to consider an Xbox One to do this if it's $400-$500. Mainly because the Xbox One will offer decent gaming where a NUC or BRIX certainly will not.
Now nVidia needs to take Maxwell with its built-in ARM CPU and make its own version of these with another box with a Thunderbolt connection.
Then you should be able to connect one to the other and make a system of two boxes with an Intel CPU that defers to the nVidia GPU to do graphics work. Attach a second GPU box, a USB3 hub, and a usb sound card.
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Kevin G - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
Got any shots of what the internals look like?Also standard 12V power?
ZeDestructor - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
More likely 19V (or somewhere in the 18-20V range) thanks to the laptop heritage of the power circuitry.IanCutress - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
On the rear it stated 65W at ~19V. Shots of the internals will come soon...ZeDestructor - Tuesday, June 4, 2013 - link
Why can't everyone just move to 12V for everything that needs DC power...jb14 - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
Loving the headphone output, mini DP and fingers crossed for a GT3e/Crystallwell park.For me would equal an instant buy.
fteoath64 - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
"crossed for a GT3e/Crystallwell park." Not likely unless you want to pay $700 for the box!. The cpu part for GT3e chip is already $465!. Such a box should be $350 to 500 with 4GB DDR3 ram and without disk.Old_Fogie_Late_Bloomer - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
A tiny Linux box with open-source driver support for honest-to-goodness decent graphics? I'd seriously consider paying $700 for that. It wouldn't have to be THIS small (personally I'd want room for a 2.5" SSD and a 3.5" HDD), but yeah.HisDivineOrder - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
Depends on who you are, why you need it, and what you're willing to pay for it. Lots of users have paid more than they should have on iPad's ($900+ for an iPad?) on a yearly basis.Paying $700 for a tiny box that has a decent gaming box in it that you can throw in your bag might be worth a laugh to those. The fact that the GT3e-quipped chip itself is going to be niche shouldn't be a stopper since... it's a niche product in and of itself.
Why is it a niche? Because Intel makes it so. Clearly, they aren't making many of them, which is why the GT3e is so rare in the lineup. This is their test run for next year when that cache will explode across all the lines, which is also why Intel is being rumored so heavily to be skipping LGA with next year's update (which may well end up making this year's update look incredible if we all thought this year's update was bad for the desktop).
So really, there's no reason to keep the niche product from the niche product. Asus's version looks like it might suit me more if it really takes 3.5" drives though...
kyuu - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
Definitely more interested in the Kabini variant. Kabini should be more than adequate for HTPC use, and it should be quite affordable. While a Haswell/Crystalwell part would be swell for performance, that'd jack up the price to an unreasonable level, as far as I'm concerned.Please do update with price/availability when you find out, Ian.
XBit - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
Could you add some photos of the power brick? Thanks in advance.For me, this would be more interesting without a power brick.
psychobriggsy - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
"Clearly the ideal chip in this form factor would be a GT3e/Crystallwell part. "Oh, those $400 to $600 chips? Yeah, perfect in a low cost computing box.
What I dislike about these systems is the external power brick.
jb14 - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
I should quantify my statement to be more about the 28W dual-core Haswell part with GT3 graphics, the Iris 5100, as listed by the announced ASUS Zenbook infinity. 28W will keep the heat down and the GT3 graphics will help as well. I didn't realise the high prices of the GT3e parts though. I'm coming from using a Lenovo Q180 mini PC with 4GB as my work PC, (initially was my HTPC), which uses the older Atom. I am not interested in the Kabini as I understand it has the same performance as the old atom except at half the wattage. My atom is truly dreadful as my work pc, so I suspect the kabini will be too (although great as an HTPC).Anyway I'm looking at this as a small work PC attached to the 24inch monitor, rather than as an HTPC, so more understanding of higher prices.
D64mn! - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
With the slight difference that a Kabini is on the level of a former Core 2, but at a fraction of the power draw.http://www.anandtech.com/show/6981/the-kabini-deal...
is on the level of a Core 2
jb14 - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
Not sure why you are linking to that Anand report? Kabini's compute is 0.39 compared to a pentium IB at 1.0, no mention of an old Core 2? I agree that the GPU side of things is equal if not better for the kabini.It quotes " As a result, Kabini doesn’t really gain any ground here. In my own use, I can feel a performance difference between the 2020M and the A4-5000 in tasks like installing/launching applications, as well as bigger CPU bound activities." 202M is an IB part as it states. Core 2 was 5ys+ ago. Is it possible to compare a core 2 with Kabini on a CPU comparison website? I would be surprised if Kabini's compute is a good as an old core 2, even one that is 5yrs old, but I freely admit to not knowing for sure.
atmartens - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
AMD's "netbook" chips are consistently ahead of Atom in performance. Honestly, for most people a Kabini BRIX would be all the desktop computer they need for the next few years.Death666Angel - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
"I am not interested in the Kabini as I understand it has the same performance as the old atom except at half the wattage."You may be thinking of the Temash implementation of the Jaguar cores. That is the one that is supposed to go into very thin and light notebooks and tablets and has between 4 and 9W TDP. Kabini is one step up from that with a TDP between 9 and 25W. Take a look at the AnandTech review of the A4-5000 and you see it has more than double the single threaded performance of the Atom in Cinebench (.39 vs .17) and nearly triple the multi threaded performance of it (1.5 vs .52). Furthermore Computerbase.de has comparisons to the Celeron 847 (Sandy Bridge) and I'm sure you can find some between the Celeron and previous Core architectures. :)
jb14 - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
Ah yes you are right I am getting the two confused. That certainly makes the kabini more interesting to me. I will have a look and see how the HD4600 compares to the kabini. I think I have been scarred by the atom performance and do not want to risk too low compute performance again. I like the icores as you know what sort of compute performance you are getting, but my experience of amd APUs, outside of dGPUs, is limited. The final prices of these two systems will be interesting. Ian if you've had this guided tour let us in on the info! Thanksjeffkibuule - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
It's pretty amazing what you can fit in such a small chassis, the traditional desktop is indeed dead for most people.kevinf28 - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
I definitely need some eSata ports. Hope there is a spare one on the inside I can hack :S Can't wait for the pictures of the internals.I love the little 'SPDIF' text under the headphone jack.. Mini-optical toslink for sound for an HTPC sounds delightful.
chizow - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
I'd like one of these for ~$120, add a mSATA for $80, some DDR3 Sodimm for $40 to get a Windows Media Center box for my TVs. CableCard TV and streaming recorded TV from a NAS is the goal here, although now I am starting to consider an Xbox One to do this if it's $400-$500. Mainly because the Xbox One will offer decent gaming where a NUC or BRIX certainly will not.HisDivineOrder - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
"Clearly the ideal chip in this form factor would be a GT3e/Crystallwell part."The understatement of the year.
HisDivineOrder - Monday, June 3, 2013 - link
Now nVidia needs to take Maxwell with its built-in ARM CPU and make its own version of these with another box with a Thunderbolt connection.Then you should be able to connect one to the other and make a system of two boxes with an Intel CPU that defers to the nVidia GPU to do graphics work. Attach a second GPU box, a USB3 hub, and a usb sound card.
Just be sure you have enough power sockets.
knirfie - Tuesday, June 4, 2013 - link
Seems to me like these things would make a really nice HTPC. Would love to see a Kabini vs Haswell i3 comparison for HTPC purposes.