The ATIV Book 9 looks really exciting. I think this may be my next laptop. I want to see some performance numbers first (although I have some good guesses). 16:10 is also a lot better for myself and my use case.
Also I suspect people will get angry with the mention of Apple in there. I couldn't care less but just a heads up.
It is kind of pathetic in terms of lack of respect for Samsung, that laptop is a 4th generation refinement of Samsung's ultralight notebook design going back to the original Series 9, calling it a MacBook Air clone is pretty stupid and a reflection of how much of a Apple's viewpoint has taken over Anandtech.
Give me a break -- all I'm doing is giving a reference point to a well known laptop. It's not a clone, but "hints of the MacBook Air school of design". As in, limited ports, expansion options, etc. but very thin. The whole Ultrabook market is fundamentally built from the MacBook Air school of design. What's petty is people freaking out about any reference to Apple in any article. For reference, I don't own a single Apple product other than a four gen iPod Touch that Anand sent me at one point several years back.
Calling it the Macbook Air "school of design" implies the MBA is the originator of the design. I had a Toshiba Portege 3110ct back in 2000. http://www.lenzg.net/portege3440CT/
As unintentional as your slight may have been, it's one of the things that grates on the nerves of People Who Know. Apple is great at getting people (and the USPTO) to think that they invented stuff that they didn't Touchscreens, pinch to zoom, touch-only interface smartphone (LG Prada was first), iPhone's metal band around the edge (Sony used a plastic silver band around the edge of their Clies), tablets, ultra-slim laptops, magnetic power cords, etc. all appeared first elsewhere. (Which is not to say Apple hasn't invented or been the first to introduce great stuff. Postscript, the mouse, plug and play, the 3.5" floppy, online virtual media purchases and management, etc. Just don't give them more credit than they deserve.)
I get what you are saying. When it feels like Apple is getting all the credit for doing everything that is good in the world, it is frustrating. I think the thing to keep in mind here is that because of Apple's marketing pull, they make great references points (which is exactly what Apple wants to be). And that just makes it easier to communicate. I think at Anandtech it is clear that is case most of the time, though you and others may feel differently.
That said, comparing a 2008 design to a 2000 design just isn't quite fair. To me they are so different--especially given the rate of change of tech between those two points.
Someone points out your error, and your response is "Give me a break", and a bunch of other mindless defensiveness, displaying your unwillingness to admit mistakes and try to improve. Maybe you'd fit in better at a less rational website.
My point is saying something is similar to a well-known product and getting a bunch of anti-Apple craziness is the real problem. I read the original text and it is still not wrong or an "error" as you call it, and to suggest such shows that there is little rationality going on here. The defensiveness is really on the other side of the fence, trying to prevent people from using a name like "Apple MacBook Air" in an article simply because... why? Because they dislike Apple?
Furthermore, the MacBook Air is now a product I would generally skip altogether, unless you want the MBA 11, as the rMBP 13 ends up superior in just about every way with only a 0.5 pound weight penalty for all the other upgrades. (rMBP13 has a better display, more RAM, more ports, better performance.) So when I say something is "from the MacBook Air school of design" I'm not just talking about appearance but also bringing in the limitations of the MBA platform. Samsung's new ATIV laptop has a good display, but the limited port selection and reduced performance thanks to Core M are all very real concerns. At least it weighs close to 2 pounds, so almost a full pound lighter than the MBA13. But at the price, it's going to target a very niche market IMO.
I'd love to see this sort of laptop (Ultrabook) closer to $1000. That would be something to use as a reference point for future articles.
That would be fine if the design style of that laptop was new to Samsung in some way and the MBA was the closest reference point. However, given how much it looks like a slight evolution of Samsung's existing models and design language, scaled to a 12" form factor with a fanless chip and different aspect ratio, it is simply lazy to define it in comparison to Apple rather than Samsung.
I love 16x10. Much better than 16x9. It needs to be the default. I doubt we'll see that because computer makers suck at predicting a market.
My two work monitors are 1680x1050. Could they have a higher resolution? Of course.
I had a Dell Latitude D810 with a 15.6" 1680x1050 (X600 ATI doing the ~heavy lifting). I miss the screen. The rest of the laptop is ancient now, but it was a good choice at the time. I was very happy with that laptop while I had it.
I find this laptop interesting, but I would want a discrete GPU. In some ways it defeats the purpose, but with a resolution like that I would want to game on it.
16x10 is back to basics. It's very close to 4x3 which is old. A laptop can fit a wider keyboard if it's 16x9 and there is less wasted space for the handrests. Your hands aren't bigger than a 16x9 laptop can fit. Also 1920x1080 is a standard that will be supported for a loooooooooong time and it is in 16x9 ratio. So I am not happy they are making 16x10 monitors, as it is not standard and forces people to argue about what is better. If manufacturers just stuck with 16x9 things would be cheaper by the dozen.
When you get to these especially small/light devices, 16:10 gives greater internal volume pound for pound than 16:9. 3:2 gives even more. It's simply the way geometry works - maximum volume for minimum surface area in a flat object would be a square. The more rectangular you make it, the greater the surface area (for a constant volume), and the heavier the device.
Plaudits for Samsung for releasing a taller display than 9:16. I would prefer 2:3 or 3:4, but it's a good sign that another manufacturer has produced a modern machine without the accursed 16:9 "shortscreen" letterbox.
The thing is, the only reason they're likely doing 16:10 is that they can use the display from the Galaxy Tab/Note Pro 12.2 -- they made the display for tablets and are using it in a laptop, not the other way around. Until/unless I see 13.3" and larger displays in laptops that aren't from Apple, I won't believe we're going to reverse the 16:9 trend. As Brett said recently, "that ship has mostly sailed."
16:9 becomes less usable the smaller the display gets (until you reach phone territory).
16:9 displays already dominate the market. I doubt stopping the already limited production of 16:10 displays would make any noticeable difference on 16:9 display prices. Display companies still need to make a profit.
if all you do on your laptop is watch tv shows in 16:9, then yes, 1080p/16:9 might be a perfect fit. for everything else though 16:10 is superior.
if you're watching a movie in cinemascope you'll have big ugly bars on 16:9 too, they're just a little bigger on 16:10. but once you start your browser, or dare to edit a document or excel sheet, it's just more handy to have a little more vertical breathing room and require a little less scrolling throughout your day.
you'll also find relatively huge bezels on many laptops with 16:9 screens, simply going with a 16:10 screen would help tremendously in many cases.
so the only thing that is an advantage of 16:9 is the cost, because display manufacturers somehow thought it was a good idea to convert to 16:9 only, no matter if the panels are for TVs, computer monitors or laptops.
As far as I can tell, yes -- there are no ventilation slots anywhere to be seen, and while I didn't specifically look for this the only real possibility would be vents at the hinge. I don't think it would be necessary considering the max 6W TDP-up config.
Raising the TDP may not increase the peak turbo, but (all else remaining equal) the lower TDP limits may not be able to reach the same speeds as often or for as long - especially if you're stressing other parts of the chip (GPU) simultaneously.
Finally a 16:10 screen. Back to the future. First Windows laptop I can consider buying in years. Mighty expensive, though. I wish there was a 8/128 version - some people have external hard drives, and shaving $100 is important to compete with rMBP. Of course, rMBP will be faster with its 28w chips.
The ATIV book looks really nice, but 1300 dollars for such low performance just does not seem worth it. I guess if you have money to burn, but I wonder how much faster this is than an atom 400 dollar relatively thin and light laptop. I am thinking of getting a laptop for my grandson for college next year, and this and the Dell xps12 with the thin bezel are looking attractive. But 1300 dollars is just too much, and I would also be concerned about it being damaged/lost/stolen as well.
Maybe the spot for this is for business use, with the company footing the bill. Would be an impressive package to make a good impression for a sales representative.
IMO, the best for your case would be the i3 Surface Pro. It really is an awesome machine for the price. $799 gets you a stupidly light Ultrabook (9mm thick, 800g, with keyboard it's not much heavier). Full i3 processor, 4GB RAM, pen (awesome for students, I used it for a one-week specialized course and it was amazing), expandable storage with USB and internal MicroSD, a fast SSD, incredible display (one of the best in the business, very accurate and well over 1080p).
All for $799, or $720 with the Mover's discount that can be applied at BestBuy etc. That almost pays for the type cover.
the i3 sp3 is a haswell-y part though, so i wouldn't really call it a "full i3" tbh, but it should be very comparable to the core-m in the samsung here.
... With crappy keyboard and shorter battery life...
The plus of the core M is incredibly long battery life at extremely low weight with good enough performance. I have an older ivy bridge S9 and have the CPU locked to 800 kHz all the time... Fast enough, the benchmarks don't say much. If the screen is good on this thing (matte, ideally) it is a very good buy. Price is high but that is what premium costs. The previous models have always beaten the MBA on battery life and weight and screen - so yeah, it is more expensive...
i like the 16:10 screen here, although on 12 inches even a nice 1200p panel would have been enough for my taste. the price is too damn high though and ideally they should offer a version with 512gb too.
i'm still on the fence about the performance of core-m though. turbo-clocks don't look half bad, but if they're only sustainable for a couple seconds at a time that doesn't really do much for bigger workloads and especially anything gaming related.
i guess i'll have to wait for some more reviews before i can settle this for myself, but while slim and fanless sound very nice in theory, i fear that going with a "full blown" and actively cooled 15w i5 would still be the better choice for my needs.
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ingwe - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
The ATIV Book 9 looks really exciting. I think this may be my next laptop. I want to see some performance numbers first (although I have some good guesses). 16:10 is also a lot better for myself and my use case.Also I suspect people will get angry with the mention of Apple in there. I couldn't care less but just a heads up.
VengenceIsMine - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
It is kind of pathetic in terms of lack of respect for Samsung, that laptop is a 4th generation refinement of Samsung's ultralight notebook design going back to the original Series 9, calling it a MacBook Air clone is pretty stupid and a reflection of how much of a Apple's viewpoint has taken over Anandtech.mkozakewich - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
He says it's frustrating that there aren't more companies building in 16:10, and you think he was calling it a MacBook Air clone?SleepyFE - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
"...quite sleek, with hints of the MacBook Air school of design, andquite sleek, with hints of the MacBook Air school of design, and..."That's what he was referring to.
JarredWalton - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
Give me a break -- all I'm doing is giving a reference point to a well known laptop. It's not a clone, but "hints of the MacBook Air school of design". As in, limited ports, expansion options, etc. but very thin. The whole Ultrabook market is fundamentally built from the MacBook Air school of design. What's petty is people freaking out about any reference to Apple in any article. For reference, I don't own a single Apple product other than a four gen iPod Touch that Anand sent me at one point several years back.Solandri - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
Calling it the Macbook Air "school of design" implies the MBA is the originator of the design. I had a Toshiba Portege 3110ct back in 2000.http://www.lenzg.net/portege3440CT/
As unintentional as your slight may have been, it's one of the things that grates on the nerves of People Who Know. Apple is great at getting people (and the USPTO) to think that they invented stuff that they didn't Touchscreens, pinch to zoom, touch-only interface smartphone (LG Prada was first), iPhone's metal band around the edge (Sony used a plastic silver band around the edge of their Clies), tablets, ultra-slim laptops, magnetic power cords, etc. all appeared first elsewhere. (Which is not to say Apple hasn't invented or been the first to introduce great stuff. Postscript, the mouse, plug and play, the 3.5" floppy, online virtual media purchases and management, etc. Just don't give them more credit than they deserve.)
ingwe - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
I get what you are saying. When it feels like Apple is getting all the credit for doing everything that is good in the world, it is frustrating. I think the thing to keep in mind here is that because of Apple's marketing pull, they make great references points (which is exactly what Apple wants to be). And that just makes it easier to communicate. I think at Anandtech it is clear that is case most of the time, though you and others may feel differently.That said, comparing a 2008 design to a 2000 design just isn't quite fair. To me they are so different--especially given the rate of change of tech between those two points.
retrospooty - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
Baby, if falsely acting like everyone and everything in the entire tech industry is wrong, I don't wanna be right :Pretrospooty - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
Ack... Too many beers in."Baby, if falsely acting like everyone and everything in the entire tech industry is copied from Apple is wrong, I don't wanna be right"
miles_russell - Thursday, February 12, 2015 - link
It's too early to say that ATIV Book 9 is the best laptop until all manufacturer have laid their aces. /miles_russell from http://www.7laptoptop.tk/Notmyusualid - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
+1ingwe - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
It is a shame you have to deal with this. Some people just can't be happy. Also, if you painted it silver, people couldn't tell the difference.Will you get a chance to review the ATIV 9? I am really hoping Samsung sends you one.
JarredWalton - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
I'm going to see if I have any good Samsung contacts... we didn't seem to get anything at CES for them, but let's hope.JeffFlanagan - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
Someone points out your error, and your response is "Give me a break", and a bunch of other mindless defensiveness, displaying your unwillingness to admit mistakes and try to improve. Maybe you'd fit in better at a less rational website.JarredWalton - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
My point is saying something is similar to a well-known product and getting a bunch of anti-Apple craziness is the real problem. I read the original text and it is still not wrong or an "error" as you call it, and to suggest such shows that there is little rationality going on here. The defensiveness is really on the other side of the fence, trying to prevent people from using a name like "Apple MacBook Air" in an article simply because... why? Because they dislike Apple?Furthermore, the MacBook Air is now a product I would generally skip altogether, unless you want the MBA 11, as the rMBP 13 ends up superior in just about every way with only a 0.5 pound weight penalty for all the other upgrades. (rMBP13 has a better display, more RAM, more ports, better performance.) So when I say something is "from the MacBook Air school of design" I'm not just talking about appearance but also bringing in the limitations of the MBA platform. Samsung's new ATIV laptop has a good display, but the limited port selection and reduced performance thanks to Core M are all very real concerns. At least it weighs close to 2 pounds, so almost a full pound lighter than the MBA13. But at the price, it's going to target a very niche market IMO.
I'd love to see this sort of laptop (Ultrabook) closer to $1000. That would be something to use as a reference point for future articles.
VengenceIsMine - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
That would be fine if the design style of that laptop was new to Samsung in some way and the MBA was the closest reference point. However, given how much it looks like a slight evolution of Samsung's existing models and design language, scaled to a 12" form factor with a fanless chip and different aspect ratio, it is simply lazy to define it in comparison to Apple rather than Samsung.lilmoe - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
Pathetic it is, also petty. Just get the info you need and move on. That's what I do. It'll never end, so stop trying make them stop.....mkozakewich - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
It seems you were right.Tams80 - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
I'd like them to release a new AtivBook 8 based on this (mainly for the aspect ratio). If they did that I would also like a switch back to an AMD GPU.It's not worth thinking about though, as aren't Samsung leaving the laptop arena?
metafor - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
Are we going to get an Anandtech review of the 2015 ATIV Book 9? I'm particularly interested in how the actual battery life numbers look like.Owls - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
Is it an Apple product? Then no.kenansadhu - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
@owls wateanazag - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
I love 16x10. Much better than 16x9. It needs to be the default. I doubt we'll see that because computer makers suck at predicting a market.My two work monitors are 1680x1050. Could they have a higher resolution? Of course.
I had a Dell Latitude D810 with a 15.6" 1680x1050 (X600 ATI doing the ~heavy lifting). I miss the screen. The rest of the laptop is ancient now, but it was a good choice at the time. I was very happy with that laptop while I had it.
I find this laptop interesting, but I would want a discrete GPU. In some ways it defeats the purpose, but with a resolution like that I would want to game on it.
SleepyFE - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
16x10 is back to basics. It's very close to 4x3 which is old. A laptop can fit a wider keyboard if it's 16x9 and there is less wasted space for the handrests. Your hands aren't bigger than a 16x9 laptop can fit. Also 1920x1080 is a standard that will be supported for a loooooooooong time and it is in 16x9 ratio. So I am not happy they are making 16x10 monitors, as it is not standard and forces people to argue about what is better. If manufacturers just stuck with 16x9 things would be cheaper by the dozen.Solandri - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
When you get to these especially small/light devices, 16:10 gives greater internal volume pound for pound than 16:9. 3:2 gives even more. It's simply the way geometry works - maximum volume for minimum surface area in a flat object would be a square. The more rectangular you make it, the greater the surface area (for a constant volume), and the heavier the device.Klug4Pres - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
Plaudits for Samsung for releasing a taller display than 9:16. I would prefer 2:3 or 3:4, but it's a good sign that another manufacturer has produced a modern machine without the accursed 16:9 "shortscreen" letterbox.JarredWalton - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
The thing is, the only reason they're likely doing 16:10 is that they can use the display from the Galaxy Tab/Note Pro 12.2 -- they made the display for tablets and are using it in a laptop, not the other way around. Until/unless I see 13.3" and larger displays in laptops that aren't from Apple, I won't believe we're going to reverse the 16:9 trend. As Brett said recently, "that ship has mostly sailed."Klug4Pres - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
Jarred, you are depressing me now, but I see your point. Maybe someone will build a 14 inch 4:3 ips tablet and re-use some screens for a laptop!Tams80 - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
16:9 becomes less usable the smaller the display gets (until you reach phone territory).16:9 displays already dominate the market. I doubt stopping the already limited production of 16:10 displays would make any noticeable difference on 16:9 display prices. Display companies still need to make a profit.
fokka - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
if all you do on your laptop is watch tv shows in 16:9, then yes, 1080p/16:9 might be a perfect fit. for everything else though 16:10 is superior.if you're watching a movie in cinemascope you'll have big ugly bars on 16:9 too, they're just a little bigger on 16:10. but once you start your browser, or dare to edit a document or excel sheet, it's just more handy to have a little more vertical breathing room and require a little less scrolling throughout your day.
you'll also find relatively huge bezels on many laptops with 16:9 screens, simply going with a 16:10 screen would help tremendously in many cases.
so the only thing that is an advantage of 16:9 is the cost, because display manufacturers somehow thought it was a good idea to convert to 16:9 only, no matter if the panels are for TVs, computer monitors or laptops.
eanazag - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
Is the Ativ fanless? That's the real news if so. Broadwell is supposed to make that possible.ant6n - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
Yes, this should be mentioned for all the Broadwell laptops.JarredWalton - Monday, January 19, 2015 - link
As far as I can tell, yes -- there are no ventilation slots anywhere to be seen, and while I didn't specifically look for this the only real possibility would be vents at the hinge. I don't think it would be necessary considering the max 6W TDP-up config.Alexvrb - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
Raising the TDP may not increase the peak turbo, but (all else remaining equal) the lower TDP limits may not be able to reach the same speeds as often or for as long - especially if you're stressing other parts of the chip (GPU) simultaneously.aoshiryaev - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
Finally a 16:10 screen. Back to the future. First Windows laptop I can consider buying in years. Mighty expensive, though. I wish there was a 8/128 version - some people have external hard drives, and shaving $100 is important to compete with rMBP. Of course, rMBP will be faster with its 28w chips.Tams80 - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
Their ATIVBook 8 is their MacBook Pro competitor.aoshiryaev - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
That's 16x9. The effective resolution is better then the default 1440*900 of the rMBP, but physically the screen is shorter.Tams80 - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
I know (I have one). It is their competitor. In another comment here I lament that it's not 16:10, and that it's unlikely there will be one.frozentundra123456 - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
The ATIV book looks really nice, but 1300 dollars for such low performance just does not seem worth it. I guess if you have money to burn, but I wonder how much faster this is than an atom 400 dollar relatively thin and light laptop. I am thinking of getting a laptop for my grandson for college next year, and this and the Dell xps12 with the thin bezel are looking attractive. But 1300 dollars is just too much, and I would also be concerned about it being damaged/lost/stolen as well.Maybe the spot for this is for business use, with the company footing the bill. Would be an impressive package to make a good impression for a sales representative.
Walkop - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
IMO, the best for your case would be the i3 Surface Pro. It really is an awesome machine for the price. $799 gets you a stupidly light Ultrabook (9mm thick, 800g, with keyboard it's not much heavier). Full i3 processor, 4GB RAM, pen (awesome for students, I used it for a one-week specialized course and it was amazing), expandable storage with USB and internal MicroSD, a fast SSD, incredible display (one of the best in the business, very accurate and well over 1080p).All for $799, or $720 with the Mover's discount that can be applied at BestBuy etc. That almost pays for the type cover.
Walkop - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
Thought I should mention: the keyboard is backlit, and battery life is around 6-9 hours depending on your use.fokka - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
the i3 sp3 is a haswell-y part though, so i wouldn't really call it a "full i3" tbh, but it should be very comparable to the core-m in the samsung here.FITCamaro - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
For $1400 I'll just get a Surface Pro 3.jospoortvliet - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - link
... With crappy keyboard and shorter battery life...The plus of the core M is incredibly long battery life at extremely low weight with good enough performance. I have an older ivy bridge S9 and have the CPU locked to 800 kHz all the time... Fast enough, the benchmarks don't say much. If the screen is good on this thing (matte, ideally) it is a very good buy. Price is high but that is what premium costs. The previous models have always beaten the MBA on battery life and weight and screen - so yeah, it is more expensive...
fokka - Tuesday, January 20, 2015 - link
i like the 16:10 screen here, although on 12 inches even a nice 1200p panel would have been enough for my taste. the price is too damn high though and ideally they should offer a version with 512gb too.i'm still on the fence about the performance of core-m though. turbo-clocks don't look half bad, but if they're only sustainable for a couple seconds at a time that doesn't really do much for bigger workloads and especially anything gaming related.
i guess i'll have to wait for some more reviews before i can settle this for myself, but while slim and fanless sound very nice in theory, i fear that going with a "full blown" and actively cooled 15w i5 would still be the better choice for my needs.