banventor, please don't speak from a position of ignorance. Having been largely indifferent to the Windows Hello feature right up until the time I enabled it on my own device, 'wow moment' is EXACTLY the correct phrase to describe what happened. And what keeps happening.
Everyone's been teasing us about Windows Hello, the question now is where can I buy a RealSense camera for my desktop? The only thing I can find is a few new laptops which have the technology integrated.
is the haswell a requiement or suggestion? is it that processor intensive or is there a chip lock of some sort? can't just buy a camera with a slightly older processor? i guess that's what intel wants.
Don't know why the new Dell XPS 15 comes without Windows Hello compatible camera, the weird camera placement should not affect the functionality of such cameras i guess, maybe Dell will add it next year to the XPS line-up. I can see such cameras becoming standard for atleast mid-range to premium laptops within 2 years.
Got the answer from Daniel Rubino of Windowscentral , this is what he says about Dell XPS 15:
"They didn't do it for a few reasons, including they want to do their own camera solution.The good news is they are working on it, but it'll likely be the next release cycle."
Brett, did you try with different people and different lighting? Is this facial, or iris recognition? Are you going to write a more detailed article? Thanks!
To be fair, he never said he'd *read* a more detailed article. He was just asking if he was going to write one.
Anyway I look forward to seeing iris scanners in action on everyday devices in the near future, but for now the latest facial recognition is pretty impressive. It certainly has improved a lot over the years, and it's harder to fool than fail-cial recognition of yesteryear.
I usually ask questions without reading an article. It's a hobby of sorts. When I am ill, I also take medicines without checking the name or reading the leaflet. Maybe both things are related?...
Seriously, I asked that question because despite the general understanding that SP4 uses facial recognition, I also read before that it does not have a 3D camera. Therefore I am curious about how is that possible. I thought it was possible that it was actually using the same system as in the new Lumia. From the photos I have seen, the set up seems similar.
Yes on different lighting, tried it quite a bit more today and it's good so far. Tried it in my office in almost the dark last night and it picked me up with no issues.
I don't understand why they can't support regular webcams by having the user confirm that he is using an unsafe login method. My old Vaio from 2008 came with a facial recognition software for the Windows logon and it worked well. Sure, it was probably not too safe, but still very convenient.
I don't understand why they can't support having no security at all by having the user confirm that he should not be operating a computer and that anything that happens is their fault.
I was implying that his request was dangerous, foolish, and would completely undermine the purpose of Hello. The requirements for Hello facial recognition support are very steep - IR for starters, similar to Kinect. Regular webcams are worthless for this, and that's why they're not allowed.
It's the digital equivalent of removing the locks on your house because it's more convenient.
Because a normal webcam would be easily fooled by a photo - either printed out, or shown on a phone/tablet, as a normal webcam has no method to confirm that the "thing" it is shown is a real person or not, which would make it the stupidest security lock in existence. It would be like sticking a post-it on your forehead with your PIN written on it. The whole point of having extra hardware is to plug these security holes in face recognition.
Photographs?? Special camera system with infrared/3d system is mandatory with Windows Hello for a reason, Even twins were not able to fool this system as stated by Brett in the above article. Brett has even linked the Australian article above in the fourth paragraph:
I read at some point that the facial recognition built into Windows 10 used an infrared component. That would definitely mean that a fake non-head would fail with Hello. Also, I imagine an identical twin's face would more closely resemble a live face than a 3d-print, which i imagine would have imperfections somewhere?
I don't understand how the additional low resolution depth info can make it any more secure. Depth channel has pretty low resolution (less than VGA for most cases)
For depth resolution, you mostly just need enough to tell that you're looking at a 3d object not a printout. The IR camera is probably more important since to spoof that you need to get the temperature right, to include any local warm/cold spots under the skin.
What really made it a "wow" moment for me was when I realized it still worked in the dark! I powered up my Surface Pro 4 and expected to have to enter a PIN because the room was pitch black... and before I knew it, I was already logged in. It really is an awesome feature.
Question - does Windows 10 allow you to authenticate but keep you on the lock screen until you press a key or click the mouse? What if I want to stare at my lockscreen for a while? I shouldn't have to choose between Windows Hello and that.
We require pressing CTRL+ALT+DEL to login on "laptops" which is how we classify the Surface Book. It will recognize you, but then you still need to press the three key salute to have it log you in. This is in contrast to the Surface Pro 4 which we consider a "tablet" and thus does not require the three key press. It will log you in immediately after looking at it.
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banvetor - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
Wasn't a special part of the site for these kind of articles, Advertisements or something?"wow moment", really?
Michael Bay - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
Your paranoia is showing, brah.BMNify - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
@banvetor: GTFO and Troll somewhere else.babadivad - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
Can't really tell if your trolling or not. . .Samus - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
That's the trademark of a bad troll. When you can't even tell what they're on about...Flunk - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
All trolls are bad trolls.Michael Bay - Thursday, October 29, 2015 - link
Your butthurt is showing, brah.dricht1 - Sunday, November 1, 2015 - link
banventor, please don't speak from a position of ignorance. Having been largely indifferent to the Windows Hello feature right up until the time I enabled it on my own device, 'wow moment' is EXACTLY the correct phrase to describe what happened. And what keeps happening.Just go and experience it yourself.
r3loaded - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
Everyone's been teasing us about Windows Hello, the question now is where can I buy a RealSense camera for my desktop? The only thing I can find is a few new laptops which have the technology integrated.Brett Howse - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
The Intel F200 dev kit is the only external one that I'm aware of, and it's $99 USD http://click.intel.com/intel-realsense-developer-k...You need Haswell or newer as well http://www.intel.com/support/peripherals/smartdevi...
beaglers - Tuesday, October 27, 2015 - link
is the haswell a requiement or suggestion? is it that processor intensive or is there a chip lock of some sort? can't just buy a camera with a slightly older processor? i guess that's what intel wants.Electrix - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
Razer is coming out with their version soon - currently going under the name project Winona.BMNify - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
Don't know why the new Dell XPS 15 comes without Windows Hello compatible camera, the weird camera placement should not affect the functionality of such cameras i guess, maybe Dell will add it next year to the XPS line-up. I can see such cameras becoming standard for atleast mid-range to premium laptops within 2 years.BMNify - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
Got the answer from Daniel Rubino of Windowscentral , this is what he says about Dell XPS 15:"They didn't do it for a few reasons, including they want to do their own camera solution.The good news is they are working on it, but it'll likely be the next release cycle."
WorldWithoutMadness - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
So... basically everybody wants their own share of cookies.Diversity is good as security concerns will be diverse as well.
MarcSP - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
Brett, did you try with different people and different lighting? Is this facial, or iris recognition? Are you going to write a more detailed article? Thanks!BMNify - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
What will you do with a more detailed article when you didn't even read the first paragraph of a one page article?Alexvrb - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
To be fair, he never said he'd *read* a more detailed article. He was just asking if he was going to write one.Anyway I look forward to seeing iris scanners in action on everyday devices in the near future, but for now the latest facial recognition is pretty impressive. It certainly has improved a lot over the years, and it's harder to fool than fail-cial recognition of yesteryear.
MarcSP - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
I usually ask questions without reading an article. It's a hobby of sorts. When I am ill, I also take medicines without checking the name or reading the leaflet. Maybe both things are related?...Seriously, I asked that question because despite the general understanding that SP4 uses facial recognition, I also read before that it does not have a 3D camera. Therefore I am curious about how is that possible. I thought it was possible that it was actually using the same system as in the new Lumia. From the photos I have seen, the set up seems similar.
Brett Howse - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
Yes on different lighting, tried it quite a bit more today and it's good so far. Tried it in my office in almost the dark last night and it picked me up with no issues.MutualCore - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
Given it has an IR component, it should work in the dark just fine.rxzlmn - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
I don't understand why they can't support regular webcams by having the user confirm that he is using an unsafe login method. My old Vaio from 2008 came with a facial recognition software for the Windows logon and it worked well. Sure, it was probably not too safe, but still very convenient.Alexvrb - Sunday, October 25, 2015 - link
I don't understand why they can't support having no security at all by having the user confirm that he should not be operating a computer and that anything that happens is their fault.bountygiver - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
Isn't that's what EULAs are for?Alexvrb - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
I was implying that his request was dangerous, foolish, and would completely undermine the purpose of Hello. The requirements for Hello facial recognition support are very steep - IR for starters, similar to Kinect. Regular webcams are worthless for this, and that's why they're not allowed.It's the digital equivalent of removing the locks on your house because it's more convenient.
rxzlmn - Tuesday, October 27, 2015 - link
well, you can choose to totally disable your login password, so I fail to see how using a less-safe facial recognition to login would be foolish.houkoholic - Tuesday, October 27, 2015 - link
Because a normal webcam would be easily fooled by a photo - either printed out, or shown on a phone/tablet, as a normal webcam has no method to confirm that the "thing" it is shown is a real person or not, which would make it the stupidest security lock in existence. It would be like sticking a post-it on your forehead with your PIN written on it.The whole point of having extra hardware is to plug these security holes in face recognition.
VinceSchilling - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
What if you held up a photograph of the person that owned the computer? Can you log in?BMNify - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
Photographs?? Special camera system with infrared/3d system is mandatory with Windows Hello for a reason, Even twins were not able to fool this system as stated by Brett in the above article. Brett has even linked the Australian article above in the fourth paragraph:http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/in-depth/...
we - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
But a 3D print of the head of the owner of the PC might do it. (Although not easy to produce, for most)Drumsticks - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
I read at some point that the facial recognition built into Windows 10 used an infrared component. That would definitely mean that a fake non-head would fail with Hello. Also, I imagine an identical twin's face would more closely resemble a live face than a 3d-print, which i imagine would have imperfections somewhere?Drumsticks - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
*Anandtech style edit:* check out that source article. It does use an IR sensing camera, so a 3D-print would also fail.Murloc - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
maybe you can heat it up.But this is sci-fi stuff, a non-concern for 99% of users, whose data isn't worth this much.
Hell, even the CIA director gets his e-mail stolen with much lower tech tactics.
MutualCore - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
An interesting plot point for a future sci-fi TV series, but non-issue for us.nerd1 - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
I don't understand how the additional low resolution depth info can make it any more secure. Depth channel has pretty low resolution (less than VGA for most cases)DanNeely - Monday, October 26, 2015 - link
For depth resolution, you mostly just need enough to tell that you're looking at a 3d object not a printout. The IR camera is probably more important since to spoof that you need to get the temperature right, to include any local warm/cold spots under the skin.vcarvega - Friday, October 30, 2015 - link
What really made it a "wow" moment for me was when I realized it still worked in the dark! I powered up my Surface Pro 4 and expected to have to enter a PIN because the room was pitch black... and before I knew it, I was already logged in. It really is an awesome feature.MutualCore - Sunday, November 1, 2015 - link
Question - does Windows 10 allow you to authenticate but keep you on the lock screen until you press a key or click the mouse? What if I want to stare at my lockscreen for a while? I shouldn't have to choose between Windows Hello and that.macshuffle - Monday, November 9, 2015 - link
We require pressing CTRL+ALT+DEL to login on "laptops" which is how we classify the Surface Book. It will recognize you, but then you still need to press the three key salute to have it log you in. This is in contrast to the Surface Pro 4 which we consider a "tablet" and thus does not require the three key press. It will log you in immediately after looking at it.